New Reality Seeds

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by TGLS

I don't see the link between the Nixon shock and any of the scandals the Reagan administration faced. Is it something to do with the S&L crisis?

I placed no link between Nixon and Reagan other than party. Also their were multiple issues in Reagan's first term, most of which historians know well but the general public is unaware of. The S&L crisis is later. It is having two GOP presidents implode in scandals and a skilled writter linking the changes in the GOP to the period's economic changes that has the GOP in tatters.

The meat of the setting is the unconscious alliance between Thatcher and Centrum. She's deadlier than they are.

[Astromancer]

Try this one ...

In Homeline's history, there was a myth/legend of the San Bonaventura river. The San Bonaventura river was supposed to be a Mississippi-like river that flowed to the West Coast of North America.

On this Q6 the San Bonaventura is real, it flows from a common headwater with the Missouri River and the San Francisco Bay is the mouth. The San Bonaventura flows through a seriously different North American interior. The politics of North America in this world are very different. The United States, Britain, France, Mexico, and a breakaway republic of California, are all contesting for control of the river and the interior of North America.

The USA's main advantages are owning the headwaters and proximity. Also, they can simply sail up the Missouri and down the San Bonaventura. Mexico in this world still contests the Louisianna purchase and seeks alliances with England or France to take back both New Orleans and Beuna Yarba (San Francisco). As in the pre-1850 period on Homeline, both France and Britain want California. As control of California is control of half of North America in this world, their appetites are keener. California, as in Homeline's history, has had separatist movements and revolts before, with French aid they, like the Central American states, broke away from Mexico. They play France, Britain, and the USA, off against each other.

The local year is 1835. This America is further advanced in industrialization than Homeline was, and has a more developed infrastructure. This is mainly because the South, seriously seeking security, is not obstructionist in this world. As the lost of New Orleans would mean the collapse of their economy permanently, the South wants close connections to the North for survival's sake.

Centrum wants a war which will let them take power in many places. Homeline wants peace to thwart Centrum.

[fchase8]

Originally Posted by TGLS

Or end up like Austria-Hungary. That's what it sounds like to me.

I like that idea - a Swedish empire becoming kind of a 'Swedish-Polish Empire', maybe with a second capital in Danzig or even Warsaw. And utterly incapable of facing the rise of nationalism.

Though another idea would be a Swedish empire like Czarist Russia - dominated by one main aristocratic linguistic/ethnic group, with other smaller ones on the borders. Also utterly incapable of facing rising nationalism.

Either way, could collapse in the face of the timeline's first big industrial 'world war' (like WWI, or Phyrric War on Shikaku-Mon), with successor states in Eastern Europe, but still a big Sweden looking to reclaim them (likely under authoritarian rule).

[Astromancer]

Let me remind you guys of a blast from the past. A now passed member of the old Pyramid boards one day wrote: "When little Billy Blake says his magic word and becomes Captain Tyger!"

Eventually, this led to William Blake (Captain Tyger), Mary Wollstonecraft(Mary Tyger), William Godwin(Steelyard the Lawgiver), and Thomas Paine(nobody told me his superhero name), as a band of supers during the French Revolution. Given that the The Scarlet Pimpernel and Doctor Syn are two of the most important proto-superheroes, and active during the French Revolution and Napoleonic periods, and the other proto-superhero of similar importance Zorro is a near contemporary, it is clear that the 1780 - 1815 period is prime superhero territory. With figures like Banastre Tarleton, Saint-Just, Simon Girty, and Yusuf Karamanli to base supervillains on, there's no lack of adversaries.

From the Mississippi to the Court of Miracles , to the sands of Mars, Adventure awaits!

[GreatWyrmGold]

Originally Posted by PTTG

Or you could make it be a symptom of a larger issue. Maybe someone's trying to literally gaslight this worldline by preventing lightbulbs from being popularized.

But why?
Well, this would obviously lead to gas lights staying common and popular, and possibly also other technologies which rely on locally burning fuels rather than burning them at centralized power plants and distributing the electricity. This would lead to slower development of electric and electronic technology and possibly a higher consumption of fossil fuels. Aside from the dieselpunk implications, imagine if a massive oil crisis hit when the world was roughly as fragmented and disconnected as it was during the World War era (as opposed to the modern globalized age where big, global oil crises haven't happened, outside the occasional embargo).

-----

I've recently heard speculation that if the Great Depression hadn't happened, Weimar Germany might have gotten its act together. By the late 1920's, it had gotten its most immediate issues (like inflation and reparation payments) more or less under control, even if it only got this way through emergency decrees being shoved around a deadlocked Reichstag. Moreover, the Reichstag did get some laws passed normally, such as unemployment insurance and guaranteed maternity leave. Given enough worldwide prosperity (and particularly Western prosperity enabling investment in German ventures), Germany might have fixed its social inequality, war damage, and other problems in peace. (Assuming that Commies, Nazis, and other extremists didn't get the momentum to start fighting in the streets.)

How might this happen? Well, we need to stop the Great Depression. Depending on your interpretation of economics and history, this might be achieved by adjusting the spread of electricity and mass production to occur either before WWI or after Weimar stabilizes itself; reducing wealth disparities; nations not returning to the Gold Standard and having more flexible monetary policy; not implementing Protectionist policies; increasing population growth rates; removing your chosen Destroyer of Economies; tweaking arcane economic stuff; or some combination of those. A couple of those seem likelier under PTTG's "Edison opens an ice cream shop" scenario, so we might merge the two and run with that.

What might come of this? Well, conflict is inevitable no matter how many extremists you declaw. With the world's most famous fascist merely leading an obscure group of extremists, the three big members of the Axis Powers are missing their arguably most powerful and industrialized member. However, this provides time Mussolini to consolidate power and ward off public discontent, and for Hirohito to conquer any bits of East Asia without European flags sticking out of them. A second great war would begin regardless (possibly from Japan invading Siberia, or Mao calling in Stalin), but the sides would be different.
One way or another, it would likely be a war between Communists and Capitalists. In most of the Western world, that was the main post-WWI tension (with fascists being on the anti-Communist side, presenting themselves as an alternative to toothless democracy and eeevil Communism). The big question is, who ends up on which side? Mao could probably unite the non-Japanese parts of China with help from his buddy Stalin, and Mussolini would help Japan, but beyond that it's all up in the air. Who gained the most influence in each country? Barring some extreme event, Germany would probably be Communist (Berlin had the largest non-Soviet Communist party until Hitler did his thing), which might push parts of Western Europe more towards the Capitalist side out of strategic interest...but the other big powers could be swayed in the decades between WW1 and Alt!WW2 by a few demagogues.

We could set the world in this nebulous pre-war time, with tensions between Japan and the USSR starting to flare up. Everyone knows this could be another big war, and everyone has an opinion on whose side to join (if any). Centrum and Homeline are both trying to control the outcome, both in the sense of who wins and who leads the winning side. All sorts of potential political intrigue.

[AlexanderHowl]

Bavaria-1

During the Prusso-Austrian War (Austro-Prussian War on Homeline), Austria and its allies defeat Prussia due to the untimely death of von Blumenthal of the Second Prussian Army due to food poisoning on July 1. With the Second Army arriving a day late, the First Prussian Army is overwhelmed by the unified Austrian Allied Army and King Wilhelm I is killed in action. Bavaria marches into Prussia and captures Berlin while Austria is occupied with the Prussian allies. With the capture of Berlin, Prussia and its allies surrender, with Austria and its allies incorporating their territory, with Bavaria claiming the territory of Prussia due to its conquest of Berlin.

The Bavarian Kingdom grows into the Bavarian Empire over the next forty years. In 1876, it defeats France and its Lowland allies in the Franco-Bavarian War and takes the Sub-Saharan African colonies of Belgian and France and the Southeast Asian territories of Netherlands in exchange for peace. In 1886, it defeats Spain in the Spanish-Bavarian War and takes the remaining Spanish colonies as its possessions. In 1896, it defeats the USA in the American-Bavarian war and forces the USA to surrender the territories of Alaska and Hawaii. In 1906, it forces Russia from the Baltic Sea in the Russo-Bavarian War through convincing the citizens of Estonia, Finland, Latvia, and Lithuania that they will be better treated in the Bavarian Empire than under the Tsars.

By 1911, the Bavarian Empire dominates northern Europe and possesses an extensive colonial empire, but it has made a number of enemies. It recently formed the Triple Axis with the UK and Austria against the Triple Alliance of Russia, France, and the USA. While the two groups of nations gather other allies, they realize that it is only a matter of time before they go to war.

[adm]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Bavaria-1

Sounds interesting, but;

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

...In 1896, it defeats the USA in the American-Bavarian war and forces the USA to surrender the territories of Alaska and Hawaii. ...

This seems very unlikely, for the time the U.S. had a respectable coast defense Navy, and, based on your write up, Bavaria was unlikely to have a fleet that could challenge the U.S. in North America. Alaska and Hawaii are even farther away for Bavaria.

Now, defeating the U.S. in Cuba, and the Philippines, causing them, and other Spanish American War spoils to not be gained by the U.S. should be achievable. Taking U.S. Territory would likely lead to an America that would not back down.

[AlexanderHowl]

Alaska and Hawaii were outside of the coastal defenses of the USA. If the USA suffered the loss of its Pacific Fleet attempting to take Bavarian territory in Asia and its Atlantic Fleet attempting to take Bavarian territory in the Caribbean, the Bavarians could have blockaded a few major cities until the USA sued for peace (Cleveland was against the annexation of Hawaii anyway, so it would have allowed him an out, though losing Alaska would have hurt).

[TGLS]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

The Bavarian Kingdom grows into the Bavarian Empire over the next forty years.

So brazen imperialism instead co-opting German nationalism while expanding?

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

In 1876, it defeats France and its Lowland allies in the Franco-Bavarian War and takes the Sub-Saharan African colonies of Belgian and France and the Southeast Asian territories of Netherlands in exchange for peace.

Seems a little unlikely; French colonial holdings in Sub-Saharan Africa were very minimal in 1876 and Leopold hadn't yet established the Free State. I'll assume they took the French Indochina too.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

In 1886, it defeats Spain in the Spanish-Bavarian War and takes the remaining Spanish colonies as its possessions.

So what was the disagreement? Or did they just grab the Spanish colonies in a maritime adventure?

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

In 1896, it defeats the USA in the American-Bavarian war and forces the USA to surrender the territories of Alaska and Hawaii.

So the Americans, seeing an aggressive imperialist state grab an island off the coast of Florida, blowing the Munroe doctrine to bits, proceeds to take a beating from Bavaria, a country that only began to need a navy about 20 years ago.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

In 1906, it forces Russia from the Baltic Sea in the Russo-Bavarian War through convincing the citizens of Estonia, Finland, Latvia, and Lithuania that they will be better treated in the Bavarian Empire than under the Tsars.

It seems more likely that they gave the Russians a crushing defeat, on the grounds that the Russians would let a power get that close their core without having terms dictated to them from the Kremlin.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

It recently formed the Triple Axis with the UK and Austria against the Triple Alliance of Russia, France, and the USA.

The UK seems unlikely. The rapidly expanding Bavarian fleet would likely threaten them the same way the rapidly expanding German fleet threatened them in our timeline.

[adm]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

...the Bavarians could have blockaded a few major cities ...

How would they blockade anywhere on the U.S. coast at this time? A way to resupply coal powered ships at sea was never really figured out. This was why the British put coaling stations everywhere. Earlier with age of sail ships, yes, they could be resupplied, later ships that used liquid fuels could be. The age of coal required near by ports, either captured, as the U.S. did in the Spanish American war, or placed ahead of time as the British did. America's manufacturing capability would also likely see a great number of torpedo boats slapped together and sent out to break blockades.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

...until the USA sued for peace (Cleveland was against the annexation of Hawaii anyway, so it would have allowed him an out, though losing Alaska would have hurt).

Hrmmm.... My mistake on Hawaii, I thought it became a Territory in 1888, not 1898. With the various gold finds in and around Alaska at this point in time, prying out of U.S. hands would be very difficult.