Perks, can we have too many?

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by DukeofDellot

Actually I'm having trouble convincing most of my friends to play GURPS due to how many options there are. It's a case by case on the player types.

Just to say, there is a problem with having too many options. It might be minor... and rarely noticeable... but it's there.

Or suggest they focus on the sweeping strokes of character creation, like stats, big advantages, big disadvantages, and wild card skills.

Someone with Scientist!, IQ 16, Mathematical Ability+2 and Absent-Minded is basically the same as someone with IQ 14, Per 15, Will 12, lightning calculator, Dabbler, Hyper-Specialized, Physics (Meson/Electron Interactions) 18, Astronomy 14, Geology 15 and Mathematics (Applied) 16 (just an example, don't crucify me on point totals). Both give you that kewl scientist feel, but one is much more suitable for a broadly defined scientist, and the other is better for someone who wants to be very specific about what his character is capable of doing.

Just because there are options that let you define each and every point doesn't mean you have to use them. That's WHY we have talents, wild card skills and very broad attributes. If your players are skeptical, make a few example characters for them. When they glance at their sheet and realize their extremely competent character has a mere 5-10 skills listed on his sheet, they'll start to change their tune.

(Same applies with stuff like Martial Arts. If you want to be a Sambo Practitioner, you don't NEED triangle choke-hold, iron-neck and neck snap. All you really need is Karate, Wrestling and Judo)

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Actually, I feel the need to point out that PU2 completely includes all of the perks from Basic and MA.

And, as I understand it, there may well be plans for Power-Ups X: Perks 2, and more, collecting perks from later books.

[Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2]

If they're going to do more Power-Ups, I hope they cover the other two areas of proliferation; Talents and Wildcard skills. Those have been running amok almost as much as Perks - I've had to create cheat sheets to keep up with them.

[the_matrix_walker]

A character can have too many Perks, but not the system.

It's just a notation of 1 point effects, most of them are variations on another, reducing a specific penalty or giving a bonus under a specific circumstance.

So if you feel overwhelmed by the number of listed variants, try and remember it's not any different really than having just a couple of options, and adding a little color.

Accessory / Specific penalty reduction or bonus / Minor rules exemption

Cover the vast majority of perks, then your just coloring it in with the specialties, techniques, details that apply etc. There are exceptions of course, but Perks (like quirks) are part mini-crunch and big flavor for your character story (for the most part).

In my opinion, there will never be enough perks. And no matter how many are published, I hope there are twice as many custom ones not printed in any book in play than there are ones with page references.

[Gudiomen]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Actually, I feel the need to point out that PU2 completely includes all of the perks from Basic and MA. So at the moment, you've got PU2 (all general perks for normal type folks), Magical Styles (all magical perks for wizards) and Psionic Powers (all psi perks for psychics). That's not a bad division, as far as "splatbook" publishing goes. Three books, and two of them are specifically for very optional character types.

Good point, and the ones on Magical Styles and Psionic Powers are a bit niche specific. Most players can live without them.

[Gudiomen]

Originally Posted by Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2

If they're going to do more Power-Ups, I hope they cover the other two areas of proliferation; Talents and Wildcard skills. Those have been running amok almost as much as Perks - I've had to create cheat sheets to keep up with them.

Actually, that's a GREAT idea. Inspite of my concerns, the one thing that has been great about all these perks are the tons of examples to work from. We definitely need more official Talents, and it'd be interesting to get a treatment of wildcard skills, although I don't find this that essential as they're pretty loosely built anyway.

I'd love to see a "Power-Ups 3: Talents" and I wouldn't mind "Power-Ups 4: Skills!".
Someone write it.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by DukeofDellot

Actually I'm having trouble convincing most of my friends to play GURPS due to how many options there are. It's a case by case on the player types.

Just to say, there is a problem with having too many options. It might be minor... and rarely noticeable... but it's there.

Okay this I hear allot. If Gaming is like a meal, and character creation is like cooking, then playing games with a few options you select like a multiple choice quiz is like ordering your food from a menu. Now GURPS has a whole kitchen at your disposal. Now you don't want to set someone loose whose never cooked before to fend for themselves entirely (templates are a decent cookbook though) they'll make a mess and once everyone starts eating they're gonna be ****** about all the stuff they didn't know how to make that their friends are eating...

The beauty of GURPS is that there are no barriers and you can play whatever you want! So you have to sit a new player down, and ask what they want and let em watch you cook for em

[Gudiomen]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

The beauty of GURPS is that there are no barriers and you can play whatever you want! So you have to sit a new player down, and ask what they want and let em watch you cook for em

It's a cookbook! A Cookbook!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

But seriously, that's what the books are about. Templates can help, but they are rather chunky and intimidating to look at, lots of numbers and weird arcane names for the new player.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Gudiomen

It's a cookbook!

That's something I never got... Why did the Kanamits leave the book anyway :?

<on topic> No... although talk of a sequel is too early IMO.

[cmdicely]

Originally Posted by Gudiomen

But seriously, that's what the books are about. Templates can help, but they are rather chunky and intimidating to look at, lots of numbers and weird arcane names for the new player.

The presentation could probably be made less intimidating by presenting them somewhat less compactly and separating out the choices from the fixed portions; the compact presentation makes sense to manage page count, but may not be the most accessible for use, especially by new players.