Parrying for others...

[SuedodeuS]

If you aren't doing anything else, that sounds exactly like using a Wait maneuver to me. Parrying for others in "realtime" (no Waits) would be like if the spear wall had advanced far enough and you were attacking enemies (and possibly parrying attacks to yourself), and you were able to notice a spear going toward the guy in front of you and parry it to protect him.

In my own games, I think I'll require Waits or similar if the character lacks the Perk. If someone wants it to be more available, you could certainly do worse than some of the ideas offered in this thread.

[Nymdok]

From a balance perspective, I like the perk for Sac Parry as its consitent with Shield Wall (AKA Sac Block).

Sac Dodge of course is self balancing because someone has to deal with that damage.

Nymdok

[LynGrey]

Originally Posted by SuedodeuS

Now, if you are trying to protect somebody, and somebody else attacks them, you could probably parry. That is, you could do so if you executed a Wait for this purpose... which is what I suggested above.

Well you could also just wait to attack thier arm/hand or the weapon or the torso. This way.. if you hack off their hand/arm they can not use it to attack now, or if you attack the Torso you will apply a shock penalty to their attack, or you could just break or disarm the weapon.

Never underestimate the power of the "wait". In all those cases what the purpose of the parry.

[roguebfl]

Wait is all and good but it does not modle the two fighters back to back, and attacking the people in frount of them, parryes ther own attack but also defedn each other's flanks

[Kromm]

Comments such as "it's broken if it calls for a perk" betray a lack of understanding of how the game works. In GURPS, all combat skills are dueling skills for one-on-one fighting. To know anything at all about fighting in a group takes extra training . . . usually with a group. This training isn't anything like universal among fighters, and doesn't help you hit point targets or win fencing matches, so it isn't basic combat skill. The system's solution is to handle this through perks like Sacrificial Parry, Shield-Wall Training, and Teamwork. The alternative is to make it a more costly technique or even a skill of its own, but that wouldn't see much use among gamers, who customarily play skirmishers, not close-order fighters, and aren't likely to blow more than a point on what amounts to background color.

During our research for Martial Arts, we spoke with dozens of MMA fighters, military combat instructors, fencers, reenactors, etc. The only ones who trained at covering somebody else were those who did close-order weapon-and-shield reenactments (who covered people next to or behind them) and those who trained specifically at personal-protection duties (who learned to protect their client). Nobody else could even figure out why we were asking such a silly question. It's very definitely specialized training for particular types of warriors.

[pawsplay]

It's not a question of brokenness. The question is, "Is this a valid tactic for someone without specialized training?" I think it is. The fact that few people train in it does not mean it does not exist as an option for the rest. Anyway, I'm always leery of anything that suggests trained fighters (or re-enactors) routinely walk around with more than one or two Perks related to their style.

[Phoenix_Dragon]

I'm pretty wary of having perks enabling actions that you can not even attempt (With or without penalty) without the perk. Too much like the worst D&D feats, which required you to have them to even attempt moves that anyone could really attempt. For the defense-for-others perks, though... I think it'd be fair to allow someone to take a "wait" maneuver to defend for others if they don't have the perk, while those with the perk have had enough training in close-formation or defensive fighting to keep their weapon ready to defend others in addition to themselves.

The only other fair way I can think of would be to allow anyone to attempt one of those defense options for another person, but at a significant penalty unless they had the perk. Or technique, though that seems overpriced for what it would do.

[pawsplay]

As far as I can tell, the Wait maneuver does not normally allow you to parry for someone else. In the normal situation, either a given technique is legal or it's not. I don't see how an Easy technique based on Parry-1 is overpriced, nor do I think the penalty needs to be higher than that considering you already have to be adjacent to both attacker and defender in most cases.

[Dwarf99]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Comments such as "it's broken if it calls for a perk" betray a lack of understanding of how the game works. In GURPS, all combat skills are dueling skills for one-on-one fighting. To know anything at all about fighting in a group takes extra training . . . usually with a group. This training isn't anything like universal among fighters, and doesn't help you hit point targets or win fencing matches, so it isn't basic combat skill. The system's solution is to handle this through perks like Sacrificial Parry, Shield-Wall Training, and Teamwork. The alternative is to make it a more costly technique or even a skill of its own, but that wouldn't see much use among gamers, who customarily play skirmishers, not close-order fighters, and aren't likely to blow more than a point on what amounts to background color.

During our research for Martial Arts, we spoke with dozens of MMA fighters, military combat instructors, fencers, reenactors, etc. The only ones who trained at covering somebody else were those who did close-order weapon-and-shield reenactments (who covered people next to or behind them) and those who trained specifically at personal-protection duties (who learned to protect their client). Nobody else could even figure out why we were asking such a silly question. It's very definitely specialized training for particular types of warriors.

now that I think of it isn't that part of "Teamwork"?

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by Kromm

The system's solution is to handle this through perks like Sacrificial Parry, Shield-Wall Training, and Teamwork.

Emphasis mine.

It seems Kromm gave the answer to the poster above...it is in the post he quoted. If I were awake enough/smart enough to do a multiquote this would be more elegant.

But yes Teamwork does deal with defending for others (however only for members of your TEAM).