Feint Question / Attack Options

[Tomsdad]

OK been reading some old threads, and I've seen some posts that suggest that since you can swap Attacks out for Feints you can combine Feint with various attack options / manoeuvre . e.g Committed, Defensive, etc

E.g a committed Feint taking the two step option, would allow you to take two steps and Feint (as opposed to attack)

Or in theory I guess get a +2 on your Feint roll in the QC by doing a Committed (determined): Feint.


Now I've personally always swapped the Feint manoeuvre in for the Attack, and as a separate manoeuvre it can't get stacked with attack options or manoeuvre bonuses/mods


But then You can do a AoA(dbl) were you replace one of your attacks for a feint and you could still get effects that go with the AoA Manoeuvre such as half Move. and you can do Rapid strike which includes a Feint but get the penalty to hit.

Now some options and manoeuvres make no sense when applied to a Feint, e.g bonuses to damage, or a "Deceptive Feint". And some would be mutually exclusive by intent e.g a "Telegraphic Feint" or a "All out Defensive Feint".



Then of course there's the distinction between attack options (e.g Deceptive) and Attack manoeuvre (Committed, Defensive, All-out-Attack)


Thing is I can conceptualise the idea of feints that run the range of effort and trade of with maintaining defence. Defensive*, normal, Committed and All Out in theory. So when I think about it I can't see an issue in theory, but I'm wondering if there will be issues in practice as a lot of potential combinations will not make sense in the system.

If nothing else certain combinations that make sense could be made up as techniques.

I can see a issue in that Feints would have a potential increased range if you allowed all these extra variability.


So I was wondering what does everyone else do?



*as in a feint that is tied into defensive attack mods (not a feint that penalises an attacker's to hit chance as per MApg101). But that itself raises a question because Defensive attacks only penalise damage that not relevant to Feints you have to convert that to a negative effect on a Feint (otherwise every Feints made by itself would have the Defensive option at no trade off). As mentioned above specific cases would have to be judged separately.

[Varyon]

Combining Feint with any of the attack Maneuvers should be doable. Committed and All Out are easy enough (+2 to skill or extra Step for the first, +4 to skill or extra Reach for the second). For a Committed Ruse, I'd be tempted to treat it like a kick (lose Dodge as a defensive option). An All Out Defensive Feint can be an option, because it penalizes your opponent's attack rather than augmenting your defense, but would only be useful when your skill massively outstrips that of your foe and his weapon precludes you attempting a Parry (say, if you're fighting someone with a force sword), but you don't want to/can't reliably harm him (otherwise, use your skill advantage to kill him before he even gets an attack).

The issue is combining Defensive Attack with Feint, because the latter doesn't have damage to penalize. This actually isn't too difficult to resolve - Defensive Attack grapple suffers a +1 to defend, so a Defensive Attack feint should give the foe a +2 (defenses being based on half of skill) to avoid the Feint.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Combining Feint with any of the attack Maneuvers should be doable. Committed and All Out are easy enough (+2 to skill or extra Step for the first, +4 to skill or extra Reach for the second). For a Committed Ruse, I'd be tempted to treat it like a kick (lose Dodge as a defensive option). An All Out Defensive Feint can be an option, because it penalizes your opponent's attack rather than augmenting your defense, but would only be useful when your skill massively outstrips that of your foe and his weapon precludes you attempting a Parry (say, if you're fighting someone with a force sword), but you don't want to/can't reliably harm him (otherwise, use your skill advantage to kill him before he even gets an attack).

The issue is combining Defensive Attack with Feint, because the latter doesn't have damage to penalize. This actually isn't too difficult to resolve - Defensive Attack grapple suffers a +1 to defend, so a Defensive Attack feint should give the foe a +2 (defenses being based on half of skill) to avoid the Feint.

yeah I think that all sounds pretty reasonable.