Ogre Playmat M1 Preorders at Warehouse 23

[philreed]

Originally Posted by TheAmishStig

I have no idea whether I'm being corrected or correlated (or both) there, so I'm just gonna say "Thanks for official word!"

We priced out 36" x 36" playmats months ago. That larger size would require that we crowdfund the mat, not just take preorders, and we would need to charge $40 to $50 per mat and likely have a goal of $50,000 to make all of the numbers work. And shipping would be a lot pricier.

Not shockingly, larger mats are considerably more expensive to produce and have higher minimum order requirements.

[sparky00]

Originally Posted by philreed

We priced out 36" x 36" playmats months ago. That larger size would require that we crowdfund the mat, not just take preorders, and we would need to charge $40 to $50 per mat and likely have a goal of $50,000 to make all of the numbers work. And shipping would be a lot pricier.

Not shockingly, larger mats are considerably more expensive to produce and have higher minimum order requirements.

Ouch! $70-80 USD (shipped) for one 36" X"36 playmat is a tough, tough sell. Even for me. Regardless of of how great a huge 36" X 36" map might have been. I'm glad you opted for the 24" X 24" size, and I'm very much looking forward to trying it out.

Hopefully, it is possible to get the mats made so the hexes on various (future) mats line up reasonably well, and can be used for multi-mat play, similar the ODE GEV boards.

I'm a fan of both the big, heavy map boards and big maps in general, though I understand the production costs associated with them.

Hopefully, the mat experiment works out well and leads to great things in the future!

If only we had enough players, you could give them an order for 100K pieces. I'll bet you'd get a much better price on that 36 X 36 then!

[Mack_JB]

Perhaps one tightly focused offering of the standard orange Ogre map as a playmat ... knowing it will be oversize, costly to make and ship, and need to be specially funded for those who want one.

[philreed]

Originally Posted by sparky00

If only we had enough players, you could give them an order for 100K pieces. I'll bet you'd get a much better price on that 36 X 36 then!

To help understand the scale we're operating at, please keep in mind that we produced 12,000 of the Ogre Designer's Edition.

100,000 Ogre playmats is unrealistic and, unfortunately, the costs don't drop all that much. The raw materials and labor costs are already high on playmats, and large volume orders don't make such a difference that it would bring the costs of a 36" x 36" mat much lower than the $40 to $50 range.

And, of course, shipping costs what shipping costs. Some companies, such as Amazon, can get incredible volume discounts, but even Amazon loses money on shipping at times.

https://www.geekwire.com/2017/true-c...7b-first-time/

[ColBosch]

Originally Posted by Mack_JB

Perhaps one tightly focused offering of the standard orange Ogre map as a playmat ... knowing it will be oversize, costly to make and ship, and need to be specially funded for those who want one.

It should work as two 24"x24", with a little modification. But I'd really rather have more green maps, personally.

...who am I kidding, I'll buy them all. :D

[sparky00]

Originally Posted by philreed

To help understand the scale we're operating at, please keep in mind that we produced 12,000 of the Ogre Designer's Edition.

100,000 Ogre playmats is unrealistic and, unfortunately, the costs don't drop all that much. The raw materials and labor costs are already high on playmats, and large volume orders don't make such a difference that it would bring the costs of a 36" x 36" mat much lower than the $40 to $50 range.

https://www.geekwire.com/2017/true-c...7b-first-time/

Of course 100K is unrealistic given the current size of the player base. My point is that if we had a player base that could support orders of 100k+ items, it would improve pricing (& revenue) for everyone, even if there isn't much difference on the volume playmat cost.

Of course, we're at a tiny fraction of that currently, but there is no reason that the base couldn't grow to that size, if we can generate enough interest. There are around 3 million chess sets sold in the US annually, & i find Ogre way more fun than chess.

[sparky00]

Originally Posted by ColBosch

It should work as two 24"x24", with a little modification. But I'd really rather have more green maps, personally.

...who am I kidding, I'll buy them all. :D

Yeah,

Me too..

[GranitePenguin]

Originally Posted by sparky00

There are around 3 million chess sets sold in the US annually, & i find Ogre way more fun than chess.

But most of those chess sets aren't $50. :-)

I find Chess just as fun as Ogre, but it's a completely different game that makes for an unfair comparison. One of the key differences is chess is straight skill vs skill; there is no random element to the game. You are either better than the person you are playing, or you aren't.

Back to the mats themselves...

While I did order one mat, I'm _not_ overly excited about it. I am excited to see a new map, but I bought it more because of "completionist disease" and as general support for the line to help promote growth. I found the different form factor a bit disappointing because it draws a distinct line of separation from everything else.

I'm not looking forward to yet another awkward shaped thing to deal with transporting, and honestly not looking forward to a pile of them in the future. That likely won't stop me from buying the next one, but I would have preferred to see a new G/S map board instead of making another fork in the road.

[wolf90]

Originally Posted by Mack_JB

Perhaps one tightly focused offering of the standard orange Ogre map as a playmat ...

Originally Posted by ColBosch

It should work as two 24"x24", with a little modification.

That's actually how I'd like pursue it, if we go that way. Use the extra space for the CRT and the stats of the various units so the game is completely contained on the mat. Miniatures would look good on it and there would be no referring to paper pages or books.

Originally Posted by GranitePenguin

While I did order one mat, I'm _not_ overly excited about it. I am excited to see a new map, but I bought it more because of "completionist disease" and as general support for the line to help promote growth. (Thank you!) I found the different form factor a bit disappointing because it draws a distinct line of separation from everything else.

I'm not looking forward to yet another awkward shaped thing to deal with transporting, and honestly not looking forward to a pile of them in the future. That likely won't stop me from buying the next one, but I would have preferred to see a new G/S map board instead of making another fork in the road.

Understood. We will have G3 and S3 very soon and by no means have we ruled out using boards for new maps. That said, plenty of players do want mats and the mats should be able to be rolled and/or folded without issue.

We are exploring the medium; we want to be able to support the line in a manner that makes sense logistically, economically and functionally. So other than the completionist mentality (completely understandable!), there should be plenty of options and variety for everyone.

D.

[GranitePenguin]

Originally Posted by wolf90

That's actually how I'd like pursue it, if we go that way. Use the extra space for the CRT and the stats of the various units so the game is completely contained on the mat. Miniatures would look good on it and there would be no referring to paper pages or books.

Yes, an Ogre: Deluxe Edition style setup would be a good way to do this. Especially adding the unit stats so playing with Minis is easier would work well.

Understood. We will have G3 and S3 very soon and by no means have we ruled out using boards for new maps. That said, plenty of players do want mats and the mats should be able to be rolled and/or folded without issue.

We are exploring the medium; we want to be able to support the line in a manner that makes sense logistically, economically and functionally. So other than the completionist mentality (completely understandable!), there should be plenty of options and variety for everyone.

I totally get that it's a "big deal" for at least somebody, and I'm happy to help make it available for everyone that wants one. I'll be curious to see how foldable they really are. Especially with it being a limited run, I'd be very worried about creasing/damage over time and would more likely roll it; which is the primary source of consternation over the size. Tubes are annoying to handle, but I do think "Ogre in a tube" sounds amusing.