Spell casting sequence problem.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Falco

Although I would say it would be good if something like the 3e Maneuver Stop Hit was included so that characters who see the mage start a spell could get some kind of chance to try to interrupt him. It would obviously need to have heavy negatives, and maybe it would require some kind of reflex roll (no idea what kind), but it would still be somewhat realistic.

It seems to me that if you want to do that you Wait and then smack them, though I think I'd just try and cut an arm off, or something.

[Lancewholelot]

Originally Posted by jahn

I can see Kaell's confusion. Page 363 defines "Your Turn" as a one-second period that intermingles with other people's turns. Although most of the rest of the rules imply a turn as being your declaration and action, with the rest of the 1-second just being dead time wherein the only things you do are defend or do a multi-turn action (unless you chose the Wait maneuver). Unfortunate overloaded use of the word.

I believe the purpose of the "overlaps the turns of other characters" statement on p. 363 is to establish that all the characters' turns in a round take place in the same second rather than a second each. I see why it's confusing though, given the "Your Turn" heading.

[Luther]

Originally Posted by Kaell

Right, I was stating the alternate interpretation that was possible, since it was asked. According to the rules as written it would seem that what I stated is how it would be. That Kromm has said otherwise means it is not what was intended however. The rules as written say it works how I stated. They seem to have used an alternate definition of a turn when saying when a spell goes off, but never gave this alternate meaning a defenition. The only one I see says that a turn ends right before your next begins, and so I interpreted it as such.

It seems they meant the spell takes effect at the end of your 'turn declaration', not at the end of your actual 'turn'. Because according to the interpretation given by Kromm, the spell takes effect long before the end of your actual turn (about a full second before in fact).

Yeah, I think the wording is a bit confusing.Kromm specified "active part of turn".

In another post Kromm said this was to give players something to do in their
turn, however I don't like such rule. Sure, you roll dice, it's even easier...
but 3e sequence made much more sense.

If you need concentrate 1 second, than people acting after you should
be able to interrupt (turns overlap). That's more realistic.
Wanna faster casting? Buy higher skill... (3e)

[Luther]

Originally Posted by Rev_Pee_Kitty

Great. Except now instead of them having to do absolutely nothing that they wouldn't ordinarily do ("I attack him."), they have to actually use a tiny bit of strategy ("I wait until he's concentrating, then attack him.") Very tiny, actually.

Nope. Now you can interrupt casting only if you act before the mage,
by choosing wait maneuver. But that's silly cause the mage should
concentrate one second not only a little fraction.

In 3e instead you could interrupt non-instantaneous spells even if you was slower:

Mage: concentrate on X
Fighter: attack the mage! (mage still concentrating)

[Eljay451]

I look at it this way...

When the Mage says "CONCENTRATION: I'm casting Fireball" (rolls dice) ... the Mage's concentration has been for his full second; the roll is in arrears of his maneuver.

If someone wanted to befoul his concentration: spell casting, they had ample opportunity to do so during their turn. (Unless this is the very first turn, and the Mage has the highest BS. Then the Mage would get the drop.)

[Eljay451]

Originally Posted by Luther

Nope. Now you can interrupt casting only if you act before the mage, by choosing wait maneuver. But that's silly cause the mage should concentrate one second not only a little fraction.

In 3e instead you could interrupt non-instantaneous spells even if you was slower:

Mage: concentrate on X
Fighter: attack the mage! (mage still concentrating)

This makes sense to me "You can interrupt casting only if you act BEFORE the mage."

This does not make sense to me "You can interrupt casting only if you act AFTER the mage."

You do not have to chose the wait maneuver. You can just attack the mage.

I would allow a PC or NPC to choose the wait maneuver BEFORE the mage's turn, that would automatically trigger an attack IF the mage attempts to cast a spell. Sort of the "I want you, to stay here, and make sure he doesn't leave the room or cast a spell."

[Luther]

Originally Posted by Eljay451

This does not make sense to me "You can interrupt casting only if you act AFTER the mage."

I haven't wrote the above statement, however I will clarify:

"You can interrupt one-round casting if you act AFTER the mage starts concentrating".

This statement is true only in 3e. And this makes sense to me.
It's no longer true in 4e, and this doesn't make sense to me.

[ArchonShiva]

Originally Posted by Eljay451

This does not make sense to me "You can interrupt casting only if you act AFTER the mage."

Within this context, 'only' does not make sense. Everyone automatically acts after the mage, it's their next action. It might seem to be in the next turn, if you consider a turn as going from highest to lowest Basic Speed, but GURPS clearly states that an objective turn doesn't exist. Everyone will get to act within one second of the mage starting on his spell.

The two affirmations would be better phrased as :

"You can interrupt casting only if you decide on it BEFORE the casting starts"
and
"You can interrupt casting whether or not you decided on it before the casting started." (because you could have gone with a Wait maneuver in 3e as well)

That being said, my final position tends to make the 3e sequence more attractive, but easier. Then again, suppose you decided to swing your sword at the mage's familiar roughly .3 seconds before the mage started casting. Will you really have time to finish your sword blow, defend as allowed, and then initiate a Step And Attack and carry it through so as to strike the mage before he's done casting? 4e may be more realistic in the end.

- Archon Shiva

[Luther]

Originally Posted by ArchonShiva

Then again, suppose you decided to swing your sword at the mage's familiar roughly .3 seconds before the mage started casting. Will you really have time to finish your sword blow, defend as allowed, and then initiate a Step And Attack and carry it through so as to strike the mage before he's done casting? 4e may be more realistic in the end.
- Archon Shiva

How?

This happen in 3e as well as in 4e.

The difference is that in 4e you cannot interrupt a mage concentrating
for one-second outside the active part of his turn. Clearly the active part
isn't one-second long, and the turn should end just before the mage next
turn, as in 3e.

In 4e, one-second concentration relly takes only a fraction, the active part one.

[Kromm]

We feel that if you can't interrupt an Attack or Ready without a Wait, you shouldn't be able to interrupt a Concentrate. Concentrate is to mental actions what Ready is to physical ones -- nothing more. We want Attack, Concentrate, and Ready to be equals: you Attack to use Innate Attack, Concentrate to use Mind Control, or Ready to turn on Invisibility, but each is one maneuver, its results happening the turn you choose it.