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Old 01-03-2020, 09:55 AM   #291
ericthered
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Default Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
I think I need to make a notepad and keep track of stats there so I don't have to keep scrolling to past posts to remind myself :) It gets harder and harder the more tangents...
Perhaps on the first two posts in the thread?

Quote:
I was searching for instances of "HP" and I can't seem to find any since then, so I assume neither of us was injured since these?

I assume you're still at 7/10 HP from the torso hit and I seem to have went from 7/12 to 6/12 HP but I can't figure out where =/
I searched dice roller for "damage". You seem to have a bunch of -1 damage rolls from falls.

Quote:
So I think AP-wise I'm at 6/12 you're at 5/10 .. ?
I believe that is correct.
Quote:
FP-wise you're at I'm at 9/12 and you're at... I want to guess 8/10 but I'm not sure.
You're one too high in both cases. see post #171. its 8/12 and 7/10.

Quote:
If you agree on that 9 or less randomness would you roll it?
Yes. No collision. Barely.

Quote:
If it succeeds, I guess either of us could treat it like an attack and make a defence against if if we wanted to?
Sure... not that it matters.

So I think Green is now running full speed away from red, and both have their backs to each other. I think that counts as Green's turn, as we've already rolled for his move.

So I think Green specifies speed changes, Red decides if he wants to obstruct, and then its Red's turn.
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Old 01-21-2020, 01:47 PM   #292
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Default Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
So I think Green specifies speed changes, Red decides if he wants to obstruct, and then its Red's turn.
He won't slow down but if you don't obstruct and I end up in your rear hex, if there is MP to spare he'll probably try and use up what remains (I guess free 60 degree turn?) to avoid having you start your turn directly behind him.
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Old 01-22-2020, 11:10 AM   #293
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Default Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
He won't slow down but if you don't obstruct and I end up in your rear hex, if there is MP to spare he'll probably try and use up what remains (I guess free 60 degree turn?) to avoid having you start your turn directly behind him.
But.... But... All Out Telegraphic Kick to the Vitals from behind!


Kidding. Sort of.

60 degree turn works. left or right?

Red will not obstruct.
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Old 01-26-2020, 11:22 AM   #294
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Default Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red

*reviews*
I had to use 2 Movement Points to enter your hex, leaving me with 1 unspent Movement Point to use after I resolved my attack against you.

But... now I'm wondering if I should actually be allowed to turn at all.

Normally you need to spend a Movement Point to automatically evade an ally, and I think most house rules apply a similar concept to if you successfully evade an enemy.

Even though AP-wise I'm owed a "free" 60-degree turn (even though I hate the idea of 'free' step/turn stuff and want to charge for EVERYTHING, I think we established we'd use them) MP-wise I might not be able to take advantage of that freeby if I had to expend that MP to get past you...

Unless... should we wave the usual MP fee if using the "9 or less" accidental collision rules?

IE spending the MP is basically what you do when passing through allies' hexes to waive the assumed usual need to roll that? IE sort of like pre-dodging?

EDIT: wait... actually... I think I would need to spent a movement point to exit your hex (into your rear or left or right hex) which I wouldn't be able to do at all if I had to spend my 3rd MP to merely evade you...

What would even happen if you spent your last MP to evade someone? Wouldn't that mean you'd actually need 2 MP to go from "sharing my ally's hex" to "passing through my ally to exit his hex into his rear hex" ?

Last edited by Plane; 01-26-2020 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 01-28-2020, 08:24 AM   #295
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Default Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
Normally you need to spend a Movement Point to automatically evade an ally, and I think most house rules apply a similar concept to if you successfully evade an enemy.

Unless... should we wave the usual MP fee if using the "9 or less" accidental collision rules?

IE spending the MP is basically what you do when passing through allies' hexes to waive the assumed usual need to roll that? IE sort of like pre-dodging?
I'd wave the MP fee. And I'd say that friends who want to save the MP can use the 9 or less collision rules. It will bite them eventually. So yes.

Quote:
Even though AP-wise I'm owed a "free" 60-degree turn (even though I hate the idea of 'free' step/turn stuff and want to charge for EVERYTHING, I think we established we'd use them) MP-wise I might not be able to take advantage of that freeby if I had to expend that MP to get past you...
Yes, we've established we're using the free stuff, at least for this combat.


Quote:
EDIT: wait... actually... I think I would need to spent a movement point to exit your hex (into your rear or left or right hex) which I wouldn't be able to do at all if I had to spend my 3rd MP to merely evade you...
I think you would have ended up in my hex if you were trying to evade me... and I think evasion normally does allow you to pass someone but end in their hex. I've got this image of Jacky Chan rolling through someone's legs and then popping up behind them in what gurps calls close combat.

Quote:
What would even happen if you spent your last MP to evade someone? Wouldn't that mean you'd actually need 2 MP to go from "sharing my ally's hex" to "passing through my ally to exit his hex into his rear hex" ?
yes, passing through the allies hex to the hex beyond normally takes 2 MP.
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Old 02-05-2020, 06:11 PM   #296
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Default Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red

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I'd wave the MP fee. And I'd say that friends who want to save the MP can use the 9 or less collision rules. It will bite them eventually. So yes.
Waving the MP in exchange for potentially needing to spend AP on a dodge if you do collide does seem pretty balanced, especially with the modified pricing system Cole did in his blog where I think it was 2 AP for 100% MP and 1 AP for 50% MP or thereabouts.

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
I think you would have ended up in my hex if you were trying to evade me... and I think evasion normally does allow you to pass someone but end in their hex. I've got this image of Jacky Chan rolling through someone's legs and then popping up behind them in what gurps calls close combat.
Yeah otherwise you'd get this weird situation where if you evaded from shared-hex (face to face) to "back to back" if you were forced to exit the hex you could only do a back-kick but not a backfist.

I was thinking one balanced way might be to treat that 1 MP as a "step within a hex without exiting". The idea how you're each occupying half-ish of a hex (three of six triangles) and even if you don't accidentally hit each other, probably ended up taking some kind of less-efficient pathway in doing so.
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Old 02-06-2020, 01:47 PM   #297
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Default Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red

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I was thinking one balanced way might be to treat that 1 MP as a "step within a hex without exiting". The idea how you're each occupying half-ish of a hex (three of six triangles) and even if you don't accidentally hit each other, probably ended up taking some kind of less-efficient pathway in doing so.
That sounds correct.

where does that leave green?
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Old 02-16-2020, 11:18 AM   #298
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Default Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red

I had 3 movement poins:
1st spend going into your front hex
2nd spend entering your hex (half of it, with how hex-sharing works in CC)
3rd : in the wind (how to spend it I think is not decided until we decide the outcome of relative positions)

I think I avoided the "+1 movement point per obstruction" (like an ally) since I did not try to avoid you, instead rolling the random dice where I might've accidentally collided.

If I had actually paid that, I wouldn't have had enough Movement Points to actually leave your hex, so I think the result would've been (had I attempetd it) of remaining in your hex, but us switching relative positions (front/back) within that hex.

Since I did not pay it, the remaining MP has only one possible way to spend: use it to pay the cost of exiting your hex into your rear hex, but this leaves me with my back to you, and out of range to punch you, so why should I do that?

In fact... something seems off here: I think I had proposed that (even if we did not accidentally collide) the act of swapping spots in the hex should use up 1 MP.

The distinction with refusing to try to Evade you should not save me MP (there is still awkardness, the hex was cluttered) just that it saved me the 1 AP cost of using the Evade technique (and in turn the chance to make you incur a 1 AP cost if you wanted to resist it) in exchange for the risk of losing 1 AP if I wanted to dodge an accidental collision that resulted (or make you incur 1 AP if you wanted to dodge an accidental collision that resulted)

So I think that uses up all of them, and it should mean that exiting your hex was not even an option at all for me (which is fine, I want to stay close to punch)

One thing I had to review on B387:

Change facing at end of move: Free!
You may face any direction if you used no more than half your move-
ment points;
otherwise, you may opt to change facing by one hex-side.
I had forgotten about this. I have used more than half my MP (2/3) so I can't do a free 180 degree turn, but I can do a free 60 degree turn.

Since I am right-handed, I guess it makes sense to turn right so that you are in my right hex. That way I'm merely -2 to defend against you (attacked from the side) but don't have to suffer the -4 DX penalty for my Left (Off) Hand.

So my turn is over, your back is to me but B386 "You may change facing freely before or after you move" would allow you to do a 180 degree turn and attack me.

If you wanted to attack BEFORE turning... if you knew Karate you could (B230) do a Back Kick at merely -4 to skill (only -2 worse than a Kick, though it gives you defence penalties after) but since you're merely a Brawler, "Wild Swings" (misnomer: it's a thrust not a swing) from B388-389 is an option. Unlike Back Kick it could be a punch or a kick and it doesn't give you defence penalties to do it, but it is -5 to hit and max skill 9.

Wild Swing can't be AOA:Determinred for +4 but I imagine they could be CA:Determined for +2, which would help explain the design of Back Kick (since it gives similr defense penalties).

Normally you would need to pay 2 AP to do so? first 60 is free, next 120 aren't?) but I think we were using https://gamingballistic.com/2013/08/...ile-using-las/

This doesn't give a clear answer though "can either be entirely free, or cost 1 AP for 2-3 facing changes in a move action, or 2 AP for 4+ changes within a move"

I don't like "entirely free" but "1 for 2-3" (instead of 1 for 2 and 2 for 3) and "2 for 4+" (instead of 3 for 4, 4 for 5) sounds okay. If I were designing from scratch (removing free step, free turn) I'd probably just like to remove 'step', always use MP, buy MP using AP, but that's for future battles.

So basically you could use your 'free turn' to at least take me out of your rear hex, and attack me as if I were in your side hex. This would still require a 'Wild Swing'...

Or you can spend 1 AP to do a 180 degree turn, putting me in your front hex. You are still in my side (right) hex due to relative facing so I have a penalty to defend against you.

Regardless of your choice, if you remain in your current hex you attack me from my side (I am -2 to defend)
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Old 02-21-2020, 03:41 PM   #299
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Default Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red

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This doesn't give a clear answer though "can either be entirely free, or cost 1 AP for 2-3 facing changes in a move action, or 2 AP for 4+ changes within a move"

I don't like "entirely free" but "1 for 2-3" (instead of 1 for 2 and 2 for 3) and "2 for 4+" (instead of 3 for 4, 4 for 5) sounds okay. If I were designing from scratch (removing free step, free turn) I'd probably just like to remove 'step', always use MP, buy MP using AP, but that's for future battles.
for some reason I thought it was free to turn 180 degrees and 1 AP to turn more, but that just goes to show that memory can be flawed. I do think buying MP with AP (at move/2 for 1 or move for 2) is probably the most elegant way to do things. Though I also thing stationary (step) movement is its own thing, but we've been down that rabbit hole before.

**********************

Red spends 2 AP to turn around and kick green from behind.

now at 3/10 AP. Defend from the kick at -2
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Old 02-29-2020, 11:41 AM   #300
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Default Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
for some reason I thought it was free to turn 180 degrees and 1 AP to turn more, but that just goes to show that memory can be flawed. I do think buying MP with AP (at move/2 for 1 or move for 2) is probably the most elegant way to do things. Though I also thing stationary (step) movement is its own thing, but we've been down that rabbit hole before.
I like the "a step is just 20% your MP" approach given a "everything's written for Move 5 humans" assumption.

It perfectly keeps Committed Attack at slightly behind All-Out Attack (40% v 50%) though normal/Defensive Attacks can also get that 40% by using a Retreat.

It might even be TOO generous considering B368 graduation points (2-yard step at Move 11, 3-yard step at move 21, etc) which is a clunky ⅒ (round down)+1 formula. It seemed too generous to low-move guys, but dropping the +1 and just using 10% is too brutal for low-move guys (1 MP at Move 10 means 0.5 Move at Move 1...)

⅕ seems perfect since 1 MP at Move 5 lets you consistently walk forward with no trouble with "1 Step" maneuvers (Attack, Dattack, some Cattacks, Ready, Concentrate)

The biggest change would be the inability to easily walk 3ft/s backwards/sideways. Needing 2 MP (I would let them pay that across 2 seconds) would slow you down to a rate of 1.5ft/s in non-forward directions.

One solve you could do is just allow an option to trade your option to retreat for an extra step. That would bring Attack/Dattack/Ready/Concentrate up to the tier of a -2 to hit Committed Attack to get 40% move (2 steps). I would ignore the -2 to hit because you're trading your retreat (CA is not).

That or: you basically just specify the opponent you're retreating in respect to before they actually attack you. Maybe even reward them ahead of time by having this be in respect to an entire direction rather than just 1 opponent. This could dissuade a foe from attacking to begin with.

Also maybe paying 1 AP should just give variable MP depending on whatever a maneuver normally gives? So 1 AP = 100% if taking a Move or 50% MP if taking AOA?

I remember reading something like not charging extra AP for using DWA/rapidstrike/AOA:double in which case I wouldn't charge extra AP for using AOA.

The idea that AOA:determined in particular should be more exhausting seems strange to me. It just means you're focusing more on accuracy by not paying attention to incoming attacks.

Especially for Committed Attack where that's merely a -1.

I get why they did 2 AP (probably because AOA:strong is like Extra Effort in a way) but especially with AOA:Double that seems like double-charging (2 for AOA and +1 for making an extra attack is 3?).

I think I remember reading the -6 or -4 to hit (or losing defences) is penalization enough and to maybe not charge extra, just the baselike 1 AP per attack manoeuvre?

After all it's not like Defensive Attack costs less AP if you don't end up defending to get the defensive benefit...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
Red spends 2 AP to turn around and kick green from behind.

now at 3/10 AP. Defend from the kick at -2
Well you're kicking me from side hex since I did the free 60 degree turn.

Though I prefer to call it "rear-side" because I like to call the 3 "front" hexes the "front-left / front-centre / front-right...

Since my maneuver was a "Move and Attack" per B366 no retreat is allowed against your attack.

Per MA107 the "cannot parry" only applies to the limb I used to attack...

I had actually forgotten about that when I wrote this...
Since I am right-handed, I guess it makes sense to turn right so that you are in my right hex. That way I'm merely -2 to defend against you (attacked from the side) but don't have to suffer the -4 DX penalty for my Left (Off) Hand.
Actually since I can't parry at all using my right hand, if I wanted to parry you, it would make sense to turn having my left side face you so that parry at the -4 to DX = -2 to parry penalty.

That said... I'm probably better off dodging than parrying with the off hand unless I was trying something like an Aggressive Parry, which is probably a bad idea given the penalties I would suffer, I would want to maximize the chance of success.

Before I do choose, could you roll the random hit location to see which body part your kick is heading toward? Perhaps whether or not the "low line parries" penalty applies would seal the deal...

Although actually... haven't I been relying on dodges anyway to avoid the -2 penalty boxing has to parry kicks?

Yeah I think I'll just roll the dodge...

I'm kind of lost (fatigue, injury, side penalty) regarding calculating my current dodge skill so I'll revisit this after you roll the RHL.
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