[MA Style] Cat-Fu

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Molokh

How do you find the SM of the mouth and limb? They don't match the hit location penalties AFAIK . . .

We're not talking SM as in "it's 4 feet long therefore". On most creatures, it's just the SM of the creature. A human has SM zero mouth and limbs. However, there are traits that modify this.

Long Arms gives +1/level SM to your arms. Stretching (limbs only) can vary limb length. etc. etc. Short arms reduces effective SM, etc.

Martial Arts makes "Big Mouth" a 0 pt feature - if I make a human-sized creature with a crocodile head, with Big Mouth +5, you can attack its Jaw and Face hit locations at +5, BUT this crocodile-headed monstrosity would be able to bite, grapple, etc with its enormous jaws as if it were SM +5.

Remember that the gold standard is humans, and apes have very small jaws in comparison to overall body size, and humans are the worst of the lot.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Lonewulf

I have a question about Neck Snap (Bite)...

How can you snap someone's neck with a bite? Doesn't Neck Snap require two hands to be used? I'm talking realistically, not just with game mechanics. I just can't see being able to get the force needed to snap someone's neck through a bite. I certainly can't get that much leverage in with my neck and teeth...

Wouldn't you need an exceedingly large tongue? :P

Have you seen a terrier catch a squirrel or a rat? Or even playing with a stuffed toy?

Step 1: Seize victim by the back of the head and neck with your jaws.
Step 2: lift partly or completely off the ground.
Step 3: Vigorously jerk your head back and forth, causing the victims body to "flail" around.
The resulting injury is sort of "reverse whiplash". Instead of having a fixed body, and a (relatively small) loose head bobbing back and forth, you have a small fixed head and a big body, and the leverage point is the creatures neck. That's a LOT of force concentrated in a very important area.
Crunch.

Same head movement when applied to a much larger victim results in "worrying" or "thrashing". On a shark, the saw edges on the sides of their teeth are sliced back and forth through the victims flesh, and they essentially cut a neat hunk out of the victim.

On most mammals, relatively conical teeth help the predator keep a good grip on a hunk of flesh, and all the thrashing around and worrying rips a messy chunk out of the victim, or breaks a limb, or possibly twists the limb right off.

This is a technique that is generally popular among predators with short thick necks and powerful shoulder muscles, along with strong jaws and either deeply rooted teeth, or quickly regrown teeth. It puts a LOT of stress on tooth roots, and the muscles are required to a) exert the force and b) protect the predator from getting his own whiplash.

[Lonewulf]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Same head movement when applied to a much larger victim results in "worrying" or "thrashing". On a shark, the saw edges on the sides of their teeth are sliced back and forth through the victims flesh, and they essentially cut a neat hunk out of the victim.

Okay, a terrier digging into a smaller squirrel is one thing, but a cat-person attacking a normal person with "cat fu" (as opposed to Wolf Fu) is another...

Should a cat-person really be able to do Swing damage to someone with his mouth, if they are an equal or larger SM?

I can see it if the jaws are really tough, really large, and built for that kind of thing -- but I can't see it on a cat person without a very large mouth, and I find it unlikely to be done with most conventional "anthro kitties". Maybe a hyena or wolf person, or a large dog, but a cat? They use their claws more than they do head muscles.

That was my point; I wasn't imagining a terrier with a squirrel, but a "cat girl" and a human.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Lonewulf

That was my point; I wasn't imagining a terrier with a squirrel, but a "cat girl" and a human.

there i more see latching onto the shoulder with the then then going claws of fury ;)

Assuming they don't thing their superior dex (and combat reflexes) can keep them un hit as they dace around you swiping with cat-fu claw swipes

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

The Targeted Attacks are written up incorrectly. You must specify the kind of strike, not just the skill - and the order is reversed. So it's not:

Targeted Attack (Face / Karate)

it's

Targeted Attack (Karate Punch/Face).

If you want them to use it for both punches and kicks, you need to list it (and learn it) separately.

Also, Ground Guard isn't so useful a perk if you don't have a ground grappling skill; it's not a perk I can see many practitioners picking up. They'd spend 1 point for a +1 to grapple when both they and their opponent are on the ground, but 1 point in Wrestling would be better spent - you get vastly more for it.

I'd suggest Rapid Retraction (Punch) might be very cat-like, if you are going for the housecat type rather than the big pouncer type. But with Sumo Wrestling and Wrench Limb and Neck Snap, it sounds more like a pouncer type.

[Lonewulf]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

there i more see latching onto the shoulder with the then then going claws of fury ;)

That's not a neck snap. That's a grapple using teeth. Key difference.

Also, shoulders don't really equal neck.

Assuming they don't thing their superior dex (and combat reflexes) can keep them un hit as they dace around you swiping with cat-fu claw swipes

Get in close, grab with teeth, realize that your opponent just stabbed you with a close-range dagger. ;) Much better.

Originally Posted by Toadkiller

I'd suggest Rapid Retraction (Punch) might be very cat-like, if you are going for the housecat type rather than the big pouncer type. But with Sumo Wrestling and Wrench Limb and Neck Snap, it sounds more like a pouncer type.

Sounds like a Siberian Tiger... that, I could maybe see.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Lonewulf

That's not a neck snap. That's a grapple using teeth. Key difference.

Also, shoulders don't really equal neck.

Never said it was I was merely describing the typo of moves i see A Feliniod with Cat-fu would do

[Lonewulf]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

Never said it was I was merely describing the typo of moves i see A Feliniod with Cat-fu would do

And you're very right on that type of maneuver. ;)

Something would clear this right up for me, though: Are the techniques "optional"? Like, say, would I be choosing one technique OR another technique?

If they aren't optional, I'd make the "neck snap (Bite)" technique more of a "lense" type thing, with an optional specialization in types of Cat Fu. Say, there's Housecat Fu and then Siberian Tiger Fu and the like.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Lonewulf

And you're very right on that type of maneuver. ;)

Something would clear this right up for me, though: Are the techniques "optional"? Like, say, would I be choosing one technique OR another technique?

If they aren't optional, I'd make the "neck snap (Bite)" technique more of a "lense" type thing, with an optional specialization in types of Cat Fu. Say, there's Housecat Fu and then Siberian Tiger Fu and the like.

You never ever have to buy or use the techniques. Consider them a "recommended stunt list", a "suggested maneuver list", or the like, with the added bonus of being able to improve one if it turns into your signature move.

[Lonewulf]

Originally Posted by Bruno

You never ever have to buy or use the techniques. Consider them a "recommended stunt list", a "suggested maneuver list", or the like, with the added bonus of being able to improve one if it turns into your signature move.

So it's not quite the styles from 3e, where you would buy a minimum amount in the techniques and skills when you bought the style, unless they were filed under "optional"?

Sounds cool to me. I like the change.