YOU'RE the GM: the last chance archer

[RobW]

OK, let's try another one -- to see how people play.

Ideally, maybe we can avoid commenting on our individual approaches until the poll is over and "the data collected"?

Halberd (ST13 DX11) vs Horse Bow (ST10 DX14) in an empty melee arena. First turn, Halbred runs at full speed, is shot for 3 damage. Second turn, Halberd charge attacks. Who gets first attack? Halberd claims he goes first, because charging pole weapons always get first attack due to their length. Horse Bow says a bow can act at even greater distance, and as his DX is higher, he should go first.

What do you decide?

[Shoug]

I would say that's a fair interpretation of the rules, specifically because the maneuver is called "one last shot" which implies that it is fired before the distance is closed. The archer is also in a very hairy situation now, and I don't see it being very unfair that he be given a chance to avoid instantaneous annihilation by halberd charge.

[MikMod]

Yup. Option (l) p103, the archer gets to go first with ONE-LAST-SHOT which I interpret as happening in movement phase, and as per p115 they drop the bow and that's them done for the turn.

Surprised so many people think Halberd is RAW...

[Chris Rice]

Originally Posted by MikMod

Yup. Option (l) p103, the archer gets to go first with ONE-LAST-SHOT which I interpret as happening in movement phase, and as per p115 they drop the bow and that's them done for the turn.

Surprised so many people think Halberd is RAW...

Absolutely, it makes no sense to me that in such a situation the archer will be struck at by the halberdier and then launch his final arrow. The only way I can visualise this is if the archer fires first, before a Melee attack is made.

[Tywyll]

Originally Posted by MikMod

Yup. Option (l) p103, the archer gets to go first with ONE-LAST-SHOT which I interpret as happening in movement phase, and as per p115 they drop the bow and that's them done for the turn.

Surprised so many people think Halberd is RAW...

See I completely agree with you, but when I asked a question about when the One Last Shot happens in combat order (believing as you that it occurs before combat) I was told it still happens on someone's Dx, which seems to defeat the purpose. I was told it 'only allowed you to fire, regardless of what happens to you' which seems stupid to me.

[kjamma4]

Originally Posted by Tywyll

See I completely agree with you, but when I asked a question about when the One Last Shot happens in combat order (believing as you that it occurs before combat) I was told it still happens on someone's Dx, which seems to defeat the purpose. I was told it 'only allowed you to fire, regardless of what happens to you' which seems stupid to me.

If you have your missile weapon ready and an enemy moves adjacent to you (but does not engage you), you have to wait until your Dx to fire.

If they do the same thing and engage you, why should you be able to fire faster?

[Chris Rice]

Originally Posted by kjamma4

If you have your missile weapon ready and an enemy moves adjacent to you (but does not engage you), you have to wait until your Dx to fire.

If they do the same thing and engage you, why should you be able to fire faster?

Tricky one. I think part of the problem is that Melee is trying to model a situation in which many things would actually be happening simultaneously with a system in which nothing happens simultaneous.

Melee (p16) "...a figure with a missile weapon ready can get off one shot if suddenly engaged

Melee (p7) one last shot Missile attack....you can almost always release an arrow at a charging enemy.

Since you can't fire a missile weapon when actually engaged, it's reasonable to assume that the shot goes off before the engagement occurs.

But I take your point that this means the "one last shot" would then go out of DX order.

[kjamma4]

Originally Posted by Chris Rice

I think part of the problem is that Melee is trying to model a situation in which many things would actually be happening simultaneously with a system in which nothing happens simultaneous.

You hit the nail on the head here but to try to model simultaneous movement/combat would transform this into something different so you make due within the constraints of making a quick, simple, relatively easy game to play..

FWIW, the same sort of issues pop up in another of my favorite games - Circus Maximus with the I-go-you-go turn sequence.

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by Chris Rice

Since you can't fire a missile weapon when actually engaged, it's reasonable to assume that the shot goes off before the engagement occurs.

You can, once, with the "On-Last-Shot Missile Attack" option. It comes after pole weapon charges. The wording on ITL 111 is quite clear that these pole weapon attacks are resolved before all other attacks in that particular melee. Further, the description of last-shot missile attacks in no way implies that the archer would attack out of DX order, never mind acting before a pole weapon charge.

Consider this situation in which there are no pole weapons: a Bowman ST 11 DX 13 is disengaged in a larger battle. A Friendly Swordsman ST 12 DX 12 is engaged with an Enemy (rapier) ST 9 DX 14. The Bowman wants to support the Friendly Swordsman by loosing an arrow at the Enemy. The Enemy's DX is higher, and acts first, killing the Friendly Sworsdman. The Bowman shoots and misses. Next turn, the Enemy charge attacks the Bowman, who selects the One-Last-Shot missile attack. Why would the Bowman suddenly now act before the Enemy?

[Skarg]

One option could be to allow last shots to be taken in a special subphase before pole weapon attacks, but at a DX penalty (-3?) for shooting hastily.

Other ranged attackers might also be allowed to attack hastily in that phase at the same DX penalty even if they are not being charged, so there's no "I get to fire sooner just because someone is charging me" effect.

Or they could opt to shoot in normal DX sequence, perhaps getting attacked first. (I don't see a particular logic problem in allowing the possibility of being attacked and then shooting someone - it seems to me the real restriction is on reloading while engaged, not on attacking with a loaded missile weapon.)

It seems to me such a rule could also be helpful for people trying to simulate fast-draw situations (e.g. with guns) or other situations where someone desperately wants to take hasty action before someone else. (I suppose it could also lead to a can of worms if not handled carefully, though.)