Crossbows and Ready Weapon option?

[larsdangly]

Originally Posted by hcobb

You can't brand a boomerang.

What do you mean by 'branding' a crossbow bolt?

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

What do you mean by 'branding' a crossbow bolt?

ITL158 Brand:

[Original_Carl]

I don’t know that I’d allow branding a crossbow bolt, after reading the spell description.

YMMV as they say.

[larsdangly]

Ah, it hadn't occurred to me that you were assuming a 'typical' character would have magic items.

[hcobb]

So the assumption is: "IQ 8 Unusual Weapon Talents may only be taken at start by characters with a cultural background that includes these items. For example growing up on a ranch for Lasso or a Goblin tribal background for Blowgun." ?

[Helborn]

Originally Posted by Original_Carl

I don’t know that I’d allow branding a crossbow bolt, after reading the spell description.

ITL 158 This magical torch requires as raw material a stick of well-aged wood about 2 feet long. I can see an arrow, but a 2' crossbow bolt? Medieval crossbow bolts were about 1' in length, only modern ones are close to 2'. Also, while an arrow is specifically mentioned, a crossbow bolt is not.

Also, the description mentions that you have to light it. And that it is a one shot weapon. Once a Brand goes out, it is firewood. Lighting a Brand should require 1 additional action, IMO.

Also, do you really want to spend $60 for each shot from your crossbow? That becomes a very expensive missile, more than the cost of the crossbow itself all for a +2 Damage.

Now, should there be a Quick Draw (Arrow) and Quick Draw (Bolt) Talent?

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by Helborn

Now, should there be a Quick Draw (Arrow) and Quick Draw (Bolt) Talent?

To replace the high DX increase ROF?

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by Helborn

ITL 158 This magical torch requires as raw material a stick of well-aged wood about 2 feet long. I can see an arrow, but a 2' crossbow bolt? Medieval crossbow bolts were about 1' in length, only modern ones are close to 2'. Also, while an arrow is specifically mentioned, a crossbow bolt is not.

Also, the description mentions that you have to light it. And that it is a one shot weapon. Once a Brand goes out, it is firewood. Lighting a Brand should require 1 additional action, IMO.

Yes, good points.

And like lighting a molotail, requires having a torch in hand, not a crossbow. So that's at least another turn, or an additional torchbearer figure.

Originally Posted by Helborn

Also, do you really want to spend $60 for each shot from your crossbow? That becomes a very expensive missile, more than the cost of the crossbow itself all for a +2 Damage.

As a player, if my GM is giving out +2 damage for Brand-ed crossbow bolts, yes, I probably would. Though I'd rather befriend someone with 7-Hex Fire and reward them with friendship and "a share of the loot", for habitual castings that fill my quiver with the things.

And as a player of a Wizard, such a Brand spell would be on my list of "potentially easy ways to make money and/or friends" without even needing a lab or to spend more than an hour making each one (to rest the fatigue). Seems to me if there is a market for these at $60/each, that sort of implies a job with 8 hours/day * 5 days/week * $60/hour of rest = $2400 / week, which is one of the best-paying wizard occupations I can think of. There may be a limit to the market, and competition for that market, though.

But as a GM, I'm noticing:
* the rules say arrow, not bolt
* the rules say a flaming arrow, but not that it does extra damage as a Flaming Weapon enchantment
* the Flaming Weapon enchantment that gives +1 damage bows is a $10,000 5-week Greater Magic Item enchantment that requires 3 alchemical potions - I am not inclined to have a super-cheap & easy equivalent

So as a GM, I would tend to say that Brand arrows have all the disadvantages we mentioned, and also don't do +1 damage (they just are good for starting fires, like non-magical fire arrows), and so there is also not always a huge market for them.

Originally Posted by Helborn

Now, should there be a Quick Draw (Arrow) and Quick Draw (Bolt) Talent?

No, because it's covered by the built-in reload rate of bows and crossbows based on adjDX.

(It could be a house rule to replace that, and it's what GURPS does, but it would involve an extra roll to reload, and wouldn't have the element in the existing rule where the strength of the bow affects the possible reload rate. I might make it a new talent Quick-Reloading(Bow) and Quick-Reloading(Crossbow) but I think it would not be my first choice of things to make more detailed in TFT, by a long shot.)

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by Skarg

And as a player of a Wizard, such a Brand spell would be on my list of "potentially easy ways to make money and/or friends" without even needing a lab or to spend more than an hour making each one (to rest the fatigue). Seems to me if there is a market for these at $60/each, that sort of implies a job with 8 hours/day * 5 days/week * $60/hour of rest = $2400 / week, which is one of the best-paying wizard occupations I can think of. There may be a limit to the market, and competition for that market, though.

I suspect that this is yet another case where somebody had a bright idea for something cool and didn't do the math on the economics.

I've house ruled out this mischief, and I suggest you do the same.

https://www.hcobb.com/tft/house_rules.html#mict

[warhorse11h]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

I'd forgotten you needed thrown weapons for it. Anyway, the double-whammy of a high damage combined with missile weapon range makes it unreasonable at almost any talent point cost. I think they should have put extreme advantages like that into some sort of mastery-tier talents, like they did for the melee weapons and unarmed combat.

I admit that prior to this thread starting, I had never paid much attention to or had much interest in boomerangs. I became curious and did a little reading about them. They appear to be as deadly as ITL represents them, but only in the hands of skilled throwers. They also appear to be as long ranged. Weapon boomerangs are also large and heavy. One source listed the weight of a non-returning weapon boomerang as being 5 to 10 lbs. A stick of wood that size is not easy to carry and multiple ones would be impractical, in my opinion, unless in a pack. Having said that, I agree that it seems that a figure in plate or chainmail would have a degree of invulnerability to something like a boomerang unless critical hit rules are being used. I seem to remember reading that knights hit in the head with a mace got their bell rung fairly easily.

I have a couple of ideas for house rules that could cut it down to size a little. One, require that critical hit rules, with DX modifiers be used with the boomerang every throw. Second, limit a user to three boomerangs, one ready, one on a sling or some other retention device and one in a pack. And last, it occurs to me that as a boomerang flies, it is slowing down, as it slows, it will do less damage. Reduce the damage by one point per MH travelled.

I hope you will excuse me for sticking my nose into this, but I hope my ideas either help or inspire a solution.