Fragile (Unnatural) margin of failure on death roll

[Anthony]

This came up because I was considering how Fragile(Explosive) and Fragile(Unnatural) interact -- Explosive means a fail by 3+ causes you to explode, Unnatural means you automatically fail but doesn't say by how much -- but I realize it actually comes up normally, because a fail by 1 or 2 on a death roll means a mortal wound, so if 'fail' doesn't mean 'fail by 3+', Unnatural doesn't mean actual death at -HP.

So... should one assume that Fragile(Unnatural) means you always fail death rolls by 3+?

[Hide]

Fragile(Unnatural): "You automatically fail the HT roll to stay alive if reduced to -HP or below, as that much damage severs your ties with the force that animates you."

In other words, no HT roll if HP falls below 0. You die.
Explosive means there is a chance for explosion (not death).
In combination, the explosion might kill you.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Hide

In other words, no HT roll if HP falls below 0. You die.

That's not what the rule says. There's an auto-failed roll, not no roll.

Originally Posted by Hide

Explosive means there is a chance for explosion (not death).

"The blast instantly reduces you to -10xHP, regardless of the damage it inflicts".

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Anthony

So... should one assume that Fragile(Unnatural) means you always fail death rolls by 3+?

I'd go ahead and roll the die in this case. If you fail by 3, you explode. You can compute any additional damage if you like, which may call for further death rolls. If you fail by 1 or 2 you are mortally wounded and don't explode. If you fail by 0, or succeed, then you neither explode or become mortally wounded. Then *regardless* of what happened on that roll, you automatically die.

Sure it's unlikely it matters you are both mortally wounded *and* dead, or just dead, but if it ever does somehow, well....

[ericthered]

As a GM, I'd either have them roll the HT roll for explosions only, or I'd just make them explode every time they die. Which option is used for the character/template would be set when it was first created, with the fluff guiding the choices. Both can make sense.

I'd just double check and make sure this isn't a super cheap way to build conjured (or otherwise replenishing) suicide allies.

[Hide]

Originally Posted by ericthered

As a GM, I'd either have them roll the HT roll for explosions only, or I'd just make them explode every time they die. Which option is used for the character/template would be set when it was first created, with the fluff guiding the choices. Both can make sense.

I'd just double check and make sure this isn't a super cheap way to build conjured (or otherwise replenishing) suicide allies.

Yeah, there's an HT roll for the explosive effect. Since the explosion takes you to below 0 HP the character dies but it won't always explode.

(maybe I was very brief in my previous post).

Alright, this is how I see it:

Originally Posted by Anthony

That's not what the rule says. There's an auto-failed roll, not no roll.

Regardless of your roll, it is failure and you die.
What is your opinion? Could you tell me why would you roll in this situation?

Originally Posted by Anthony

"The blast instantly reduces you to -10xHP, regardless of the damage it inflicts".

You could survive if you had unkillable+ w/o fragile unnatural. Hence I said:

Originally Posted by Hide

(...) In combination, the explosion might kill you.

For example:

• If you have fragile unnatural, you die at HP below 0. You could "survive" with extra life.
• If you have fragile explosive, you have a chance to explode at HP below 0. But if you explode, you could "survive" with unkillable+ or extra life.
• If you combine unnatural and explosive, you die and may explode.
• If you have unnatural, explosive and unkillable+/extra life: You die, revive, may explode, live or die.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Hide

Regardless of your roll, it is failure and you die.

It's a failure. The problem is that the text doesn't distinguish between fail (mortal wound) and fail (dead outright).

[Hide]

Originally Posted by Anthony

It's a failure. The problem is that the text doesn't distinguish between fail (mortal wound) and fail (dead outright).

AFAIK it says you die: "(...) You automatically fail the HT roll to stay alive if reduced to -HP or below (...)" B137.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Hide

AFAIK it says you die: "(...) You automatically fail the HT roll to stay alive if reduced to -HP or below (...)" B137.

And failing a HT roll to stay alive by 1 or 2 means you are mortally wounded, not dead.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Anthony

And failing a HT roll to stay alive by 1 or 2 means you are mortally wounded, not dead.

I'm not sure what part of "as that much damage severs your ties with the force that animates you" you're not getting. Yes it's a bit fluffy, but it's essentially saying, "and you die".

So yes, the autofail is treated as being by -3 or more.