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Old 08-20-2010, 11:38 AM   #1
Cheomesh
 
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Default Wrestling in Armor - A vid for you low-tech guys

I'd seen this some time ago and thought I'd share it here in case it has not already been.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4k-vjdeZO4

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Old 08-20-2010, 12:17 PM   #2
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Default Re: Wrestling in Armor - A vid for you low-tech guys

Love to see a GURPS description of each of those exchanges.

This reminds me of a question that keeps popping up in my mind after having watched other similar demonstrations. I keep seeing this technique where, FREX, one attacks with a long sword and follows through, switching grips, into a pommel strike, in one smooth motion. Per RAW, IIRC, this would require a Ready maneuver between the two attacks, but it surely doesn't seem, from watching, like it should take that long to go from one to the other—doesn't necessarily strike me as an AoA, although one might be able to make that case. In addition, the transition being that quick, it seems like one might be able to use an Unready weapon in this same manner on the following Turn.

Thoughts?
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Old 08-20-2010, 12:27 PM   #3
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Default Re: Wrestling in Armor - A vid for you low-tech guys

I'd suggest that anyone who has trained with a multi-skill weapon (and a weapon that needs Broadsword, Two-Handed Sword, and Brawling for the pommel strike qualifies) should take Form Mastery. That would allow them to flow from one skill to the next without needing a Ready Maneuver.

The strike you described would, I think, be a Rapid Strike: blade then pommel. The technique that I like to use actually builds out of a parry action. Parry with the blade while stepping in, roll the wrist and strike with the pommel to the temple. Done properly the parried attack powers the pommel strike. Easy to do, nasty to do. Followup with a throw (Judo, with Armed Grappling) and you've got a fight winner.
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Old 08-20-2010, 12:39 PM   #4
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Default Re: Wrestling in Armor - A vid for you low-tech guys

I've got to head out. But looking at the first few actions (keep in mind that each video section restarts and shows how to react to the previous video's action).

1- Red attacks in Defensive Grip; White parries same grip.

2- White follows up parry with a Rapid Strike: Feint and Thrust to chinks in armour.

3- Red drops his sword (free action), while using his armour to parry (unarmed skill parry with DR2+ armour); debatably a Dodge. Follows up by grappling the arm (Wrestling) and completing with an Arm Lock.

4-White escapes Arm Lock (early) and strikes with pommel to the head (Brawling; note that White missed the shot, Red was a very compliant partner). White ended with either a badly formed or completely flubbed Armed Grapple and Arm Lock or is simply pushing on Red's shoulder to keep him from turning around (in GURPS terms, I don't know. Maybe a grapple of the torso?).
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Old 08-20-2010, 12:52 PM   #5
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Default Re: Wrestling in Armor - A vid for you low-tech guys

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobKamm View Post
…The technique that I like to use actually builds out of a parry action. Parry with the blade while stepping in, roll the wrist and strike with the pommel to the temple. Done properly the parried attack powers the pommel strike. Easy to do, nasty to do. Followup with a throw (Judo, with Armed Grappling) and you've got a fight winner.
We can see this work IRL, but why would you do that in GURPS? Why would you not follow the parry with a blade attack, if there's no specific benefit to doing otherwise? In game-terms, how does that parry momentum have any effect on the pommel strike?
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:47 PM   #6
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Default Re: Wrestling in Armor - A vid for you low-tech guys

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigermann View Post
We can see this work IRL, but why would you do that in GURPS? Why would you not follow the parry with a blade attack, if there's no specific benefit to doing otherwise? In game-terms, how does that parry momentum have any effect on the pommel strike?
Because, constructed as a technique, having to follow a parry with a less damaging attack than your primary sounds like a special drawback to me. Which justifies a reduction of -1 to the default penalty.

A kind GM might even allow a -2, since these are two drawbacks (must follow a parry, uses pommel of sword instead of blade).
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Old 08-20-2010, 02:24 PM   #7
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Default Re: Wrestling in Armor - A vid for you low-tech guys

Keep in mind that not every fighter wore his visor down all the time, and while open grille faceplates are attested, I for one think they are primarily behourd and similar "recreational" use. Why would a fighter pull his helmet up?

1) Perception. Narrow slits for your eyes protect you effectively from most attacks, but they also restrict your vision. Not seeing the peasant slip around your side with that flail is going to be bad news for you. Raising the visor allows you to see whats going on in a crowded melee, but it's going to make you more vulnerable to facial attacks. Sound may also be an important cue: hearing a battle cry or a musical instrument may be a signal.

2) Breathing. Any type of face mask restricts your breathing, constricts airflow and makes you sweat. Doubly so for one that is made out of heavy and thick metal, with narrow slits or vents for breathing. You're going to fatigue more rapidly from the weight as well as the increased temperature as your breathing heats up the helmet and sweat begins to roll out of your hair. Properly made undergarments help wick that away, but you're still trapped in a metal box.

Helmets were made with removable visors for a large body of time, and open faced helmets in particular are extremely common through history, often replacing close-faced helms.

And a Brawling technique with a sword pommel is at less penalty to make an attack than a reach 1 or 2 sword in close combat.
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Old 08-20-2010, 03:19 PM   #8
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Default Re: Wrestling in Armor - A vid for you low-tech guys

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verjigorm View Post
And a Brawling technique with a sword pommel is at less penalty to make an attack than a reach 1 or 2 sword in close combat.
That makes sense to me—close the gap at the same time, entering CC, making his weapon less useful. Not so good if you have to use a Ready action to do it, though. Still…

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Because, constructed as a technique, having to follow a parry with a less damaging attack than your primary sounds like a special drawback to me. Which justifies a reduction of -1 to the default penalty. A kind GM might even allow a -2, since these are two drawbacks (must follow a parry, uses pommel of sword instead of blade).
Actually, thinking that through, maybe a Combination might work here also, incorporating the Ready…and not require any "new" Trait, and maybe cheaper?

Other than Form/Grip Mastery, though, is there any "official" way to change grips faster? I noticed that MA102 allows a quick-change from normal to (specifically) Reversed Grip with a -4/-6 Technique—that could be adapted to other grips, I would imagine.
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Old 08-21-2010, 07:23 AM   #9
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Default Re: Wrestling in Armor - A vid for you low-tech guys

Quote:
but why would you do that in GURPS?
For the same reason you'd do it in real life. If you think that the other guy is a better swordsman but that you're a better grappler/hand-to-hand fighter. If you're the better swordsman use the sword, if you aren't find something else to do. Parry, step in (to enter Close Combat) and strike with the pommel is something else. Now you are sharing the hex with someone who, if you hit, is suffering from a shock penalty (and any other head shot specific issues you've inflicted). That isn't a bad place to be to start messing up someone's day.
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Old 11-30-2010, 02:15 AM   #10
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Default Re: Wrestling in Armor - A vid for you low-tech guys

Thought I'd give this a bit of a bump (really hasn't been that long has it?) with some new fun content:

Polearm in armor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8myj3zgoCg

Part 1 of a 3 part series on putting on armor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP3LiwNWrk0

There's more but I don't mean to spam :p

M.
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