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Old 02-05-2016, 06:32 AM   #21
DouglasCole
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Default Re: [MA] Throw Wrestling, Belt/Jacket Wrestling Styles

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Originally Posted by Maorencze View Post
Some of the Sumo kimarite (eg. "named" winning moves) include hip throw, armlock throw (yes, they DO know armlocks), belt throw (overarm or underarm), beltless arm throw (hip throw variant using underhooked arm as a lever), and other throws as well (though the others are quite in tune with Force Posture Change or Sweep).
All throws are not Judo Throws. The signature abilities of a Judo Throw, especially in the regular, non-TG grappling rules, is that you can do one following a Judo Parry, that it does not require a grapple, and that it can stun and/or damage your foe.

The "doesn't require a grapple" seemed key here to me, and the playtesters. All of the moves you note require the foe be grappled first, which suggest Force Posture Change or Throws from Locks rather than Judo Throw.

Of course, if you want to allow Judo Throw to your sumotori and jacket wrestlers, the Gaming Police won't come and stop you.
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Old 02-05-2016, 06:38 AM   #22
vicky_molokh
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Default Re: [MA] Throw Wrestling, Belt/Jacket Wrestling Styles

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Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
All throws are not Judo Throws. The signature abilities of a Judo Throw, especially in the regular, non-TG grappling rules, is that you can do one following a Judo Parry, that it does not require a grapple, and that it can stun and/or damage your foe.
Hmm, and I thought that "does not have a roughly 50% chance* of causing the attacker to fall down" is one of the signature goodies about it.

* == Actual chance varies depending on relative skill levels of the combatants.
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Old 02-05-2016, 07:54 AM   #23
Maorencze
 
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Default Re: [MA] Throw Wrestling, Belt/Jacket Wrestling Styles

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
All throws are not Judo Throws. The signature abilities of a Judo Throw, especially in the regular, non-TG grappling rules, is that you can do one following a Judo Parry, that it does not require a grapple, and that it can stun and/or damage your foe.

The "doesn't require a grapple" seemed key here to me, and the playtesters. All of the moves you note require the foe be grappled first, which suggest Force Posture Change or Throws from Locks rather than Judo Throw.

Of course, if you want to allow Judo Throw to your sumotori and jacket wrestlers, the Gaming Police won't come and stop you.
But that is just one "sense-component" of Judo Throw; I picture Judo Throw as a technique through which skill definitely beats...meh, just disproved myself...
Though not entirely, for many of the throws still rely more on skill and less on grapple, even in such styles of Wrestling.
Still - doesnt it seem too generic to include such a Technique as Force Posture Change? Its takedown, its muscle-throw, its "offensive sprawl"-pulldown/pushdown,...
And as well, maybe not all of the throws I mentioned, but quite a lot of them fill your mentioned criteria from my (little) experience and what I've seen in videos of sumo, bkh, kurash, etc. - can do one following a parry, does not require a grapple, can stun and/or damage your foe
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