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Old 11-04-2017, 06:25 PM   #21
warellis
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Default Re: GURPS Lucifer-5?

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Originally Posted by Astromancer View Post
Those are similar settings, but you could say Ray Bradbury and Edgar Rice Burroughs created similar versions of Mars. Well, a little bit yes and a whole lot no.



Between the Earth, the Moon, Mars, Mercury, Venus, and the Asteroids, their are so many venues for adventure and complication. A good PDF would be mind blowing.
It's funny but what got Britannica-6 to get a full blown PDF whereas say stuff like Lucifer-5 or Azoth-7 never got them?

All I know is that Lucifer-5 was also apparently featured in Suppressed Transmissions as "Reality Tunguska" in the "Worldbuilding With Extra Pulp" and "The Sky Is Falling" articles.
Quote:
Reality Tunguska ("Worldbuilding With Extra Pulp" and "The Sky Is Falling") (became Lucifer 5 in Gurps: Infinite Worlds 4th ed.)
Regarding "astronium" and "petrinium" are they uranium & plutonium or something?
Quote:
In the radioactive ruins of St. Petersburg, the scientists of the Kaiser Wilhelm Institut (assisting with the occupation of a disintegrated Russia) found something they didn’t expect. They discovered the keys to the future – strange elements they dubbed “astronium” and “petrinium.”

Astronium could be built into super-bombs that froze the balance of power, especially after the discovery of astronium in ancient meteor craters in Mexico, the Belgian Congo, and Mesopotamia. Petrinium could be used to power cities with electric force, lighting them up for the cost of the wire. And either could fuel the core of Willy Ley’s torchships that flew to the planets, somehow defying the conventional laws of action and reaction.
It even says this under "Current Events":
Quote:
Current Affairs
Bold German, American, and British airmen explore the planets in their atomic torch ships, as Imperial Japan and the other powers scramble for space.
EDIT: No they're superscience minerals.

Last edited by warellis; 11-04-2017 at 07:17 PM.
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Old 11-04-2017, 06:44 PM   #22
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: GURPS Lucifer-5?

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Originally Posted by warellis View Post
what got Britannica-6 to get a full blown PDF.
It was probably Phil Masters wanting to write it. What it would take for Lucifer-5 is another reliable author wanting to do that setting.

Until that happens I did start a brief thread about the setting a few years ago.

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=130081

I probably have a few more details I've come up with since if anyone is interested.
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Old 11-04-2017, 07:23 PM   #23
warellis
 
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Default Re: GURPS Lucifer-5?

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
It was probably Phil Masters wanting to write it. What it would take for Lucifer-5 is another reliable author wanting to do that setting.

Until that happens I did start a brief thread about the setting a few years ago.

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=130081

I probably have a few more details I've come up with since if anyone is interested.
Since the Great Depression appeared to have lessened, do you think certain weapons or tech that wasn't adopted due to the ongoing Depression might've been adopted or tested earlier in Lucifer-5, like the Pendersen rifle in the US, for example?

Do you think tanks or armored vehicles for war would undergo differences due to the possibility of having to move them through space to other worlds?
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Old 11-04-2017, 07:57 PM   #24
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: GURPS Lucifer-5?

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Originally Posted by warellis View Post
Since the Great Depression appeared to have lessened, do you think certain weapons or tech that wasn't adopted due to the ongoing Depression might've been adopted or tested earlier in Lucifer-5, like the Pendersen rifle in the US, for example?

Do you think tanks or armored vehicles for war would undergo differences due to the possibility of having to move them through space to other worlds?
To sell the smaller caliber is mostly a knowledge that the possible range of infantry engagements was shrinking. That would be very forward-thinking. In 1908 the full-power .30 caliber rifle was the longest range fully portable weapons system the infantry had. Indeed, it may not have been clear that artillery wasn't going to be towed into position by mule teams.

Then you get transportation advancements though some of those may be going into rocket engines at the expense of internal combustion. Given the way the hot reactionless thruster has to work for other purposes in this setting what I would anticipate sub-sonic "battlewagons" like an HMS Dreadnought that flew with much gushing of flame out of its' underside.

Creation of these would pre-empt tank development very thoroughly and troopship equivalents would probably greatly shorten the infantry battlefield. something like a heavily armored Huey (with a big Flash Gordon-like aesthetic) might result.

I really can't se anyone who has access to such a vehicle ever being very interested in tracked or wheeled combat vehicles for any environment.

Troops trying to dis-embark from one of these in a hurry could get by with a much shorter range weapon but would very much like a handier one. So a full size Pederson rifle wouldn't be quite right.

To try and evolve a pre-existing weapon into what they would actually want (which might not be what they thought they wanted) I would take the Remington 08 semi-automatic rifle (in either .30 or .35 Remington) and ruggedize it and give it a larger detachable magazine and full auto capability.

The result would be very much like an AK-47 only rather earlier. Alternatively, bring an altered M-1 Carbine along earlier.
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Old 11-04-2017, 09:11 PM   #25
warellis
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Default Re: GURPS Lucifer-5?

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
To sell the smaller caliber is mostly a knowledge that the possible range of infantry engagements was shrinking. That would be very forward-thinking. In 1908 the full-power .30 caliber rifle was the longest range fully portable weapons system the infantry had. Indeed, it may not have been clear that artillery wasn't going to be towed into position by mule teams.

Then you get transportation advancements though some of those may be going into rocket engines at the expense of internal combustion. Given the way the hot reactionless thruster has to work for other purposes in this setting what I would anticipate sub-sonic "battlewagons" like an HMS Dreadnought that flew with much gushing of flame out of its' underside.

Creation of these would pre-empt tank development very thoroughly and troopship equivalents would probably greatly shorten the infantry battlefield. something like a heavily armored Huey (with a big Flash Gordon-like aesthetic) might result.

I really can't see anyone who has access to such a vehicle ever being very interested in tracked or wheeled combat vehicles for any environment.
So you might more see lightweight-ish APCs/IFVs and transport craft and gunships than say WW2-ish tanks?

How would aircraft be affected over the 3 decades with these technologies?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Troops trying to dis-embark from one of these in a hurry could get by with a much shorter range weapon but would very much like a handier one. So a full size Pederson rifle wouldn't be quite right.

To try and evolve a pre-existing weapon into what they would actually want (which might not be what they thought they wanted) I would take the Remington 08 semi-automatic rifle (in either .30 or .35 Remington) and ruggedize it and give it a larger detachable magazine and full auto capability.

The result would be very much like an AK-47 only rather earlier. Alternatively, bring an altered M-1 Carbine along earlier.
Do you think intermediate cartridges like the 5.56 NATO or 5.45 Soviet, the small-caliber high-velocty types, might be adopted earlier here?

I've noticed for some pulpish worldlines, that often a 5.71 Skoda intermediate cartridge is seen in use, like for Gernsback in Alternate Earths.

Last edited by warellis; 11-04-2017 at 09:28 PM.
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Old 11-05-2017, 09:30 AM   #26
fchase8
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
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Default Re: GURPS Lucifer-5?

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Originally Posted by warellis View Post
It's funny but what got Britannica-6 to get a full blown PDF whereas say stuff like Lucifer-5 or Azoth-7 never got them?
Doing Lucifer-5 or Azoth-7 would be a lot more work, since they've got variant physical laws and places (like other planets).

Britannica-6 was also a specific Steampunk setting, not just Infinite Worlds, so was of interest to a larger number of GURPS players.
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Old 11-05-2017, 09:32 AM   #27
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: GURPS Lucifer-5?

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Originally Posted by warellis View Post
So you might more see lightweight-ish APCs/IFVs and transport craft and gunships than say WW2-ish tanks?

How would aircraft be affected over the 3 decades with these technologies?

Do you think intermediate cartridges like the 5.56 NATO or 5.45 Soviet, the small-caliber high-velocty types, might be adopted earlier here?

I've noticed for some pulpish worldlines, that often a 5.71 Skoda intermediate cartridge is seen in use, like for Gernsback in Alternate Earths.
If the "APCs" are rocket-powered maybe. The torch drive is a TL10^ or 11^ propulsion system. It would leapfrog a lot of intermediate developments.

You might eventually see winged rockets instead of brute force lifters but not airplanes as they existed in OTL. Those are one of the things that get totally leapfrogged.

A general technophilia and radical change in how wars would be fought almost certainly accelerate the pace of personal weapons development. I don't know that they'd end up in the same place we have though.

A path towards evolved firearms that I didn't not mention last night is scaling up velocity wise from sub-machineguns. Our Soviets started on that path when they began hotloading the Mauser 7.63 for use in the PPSh-41. A few hundred feet per second more and they'd pass the P- barrier.
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Old 11-05-2017, 10:56 AM   #28
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Default Re: GURPS Lucifer-5?

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Originally Posted by warellis View Post
It's funny but what got Britannica-6 to get a full blown PDF whereas say stuff like Lucifer-5 or Azoth-7 never got them?
I wanted to run an Infinite Worlds demo game at a con, thought that timeline sounded interesting, and floated some questions about plausible details on these boards. By the time the discussion was over, I had enough notes and ideas to make writing the book quite easy.

Itís sold moderately well, so I imagine someone could get a proposal for another such project past Steven. Who knows, one day, the fancy might take me. But itís not such a moneyspinner that Iím going to spend all my time on those things, and nobody else seems to be even trying.
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Old 11-05-2017, 11:44 AM   #29
warellis
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Default Re: GURPS Lucifer-5?

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Originally Posted by Phil Masters View Post
I wanted to run an Infinite Worlds demo game at a con, thought that timeline sounded interesting, and floated some questions about plausible details on these boards. By the time the discussion was over, I had enough notes and ideas to make writing the book quite easy.

It’s sold moderately well, so I imagine someone could get a proposal for another such project past Steven. Who knows, one day, the fancy might take me. But it’s not such a moneyspinner that I’m going to spend all my time on those things, and nobody else seems to be even trying.
Neat. Did you play a demo in that particular worldline?

Also since you're here, do you know what is meant by "holy flame" here in this bit from Azoth-7?:
Quote:
Rubies from Regulus, for example, made cannon that fired lances of holy flame;
Was that meant to be some sort of equivalent to an energy weapon, or is it more like alchemy is just being used to augment black powder, since the divergence point was already after gunpowder had been in use for several centuriee?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
If the "APCs" are rocket-powered maybe. The torch drive is a TL10^ or 11^ propulsion system. It would leapfrog a lot of intermediate developments.

You might eventually see winged rockets instead of brute force lifters but not airplanes as they existed in OTL. Those are one of the things that get totally leapfrogged.

A general technophilia and radical change in how wars would be fought almost certainly accelerate the pace of personal weapons development. I don't know that they'd end up in the same place we have though.
Considering the effects astronium & petrinium have had on technology, is there any tech you think Lucifer-5 might be deficient on considering what they have available? Like tech that might be useful, in your opinion, but something they might not have thought of even with super space rockets around?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
A path towards evolved firearms that I didn't not mention last night is scaling up velocity wise from sub-machineguns. Our Soviets started on that path when they began hotloading the Mauser 7.63 for use in the PPSh-41. A few hundred feet per second more and they'd pass the P- barrier.
Interesting. I could see a jump from overpressured pistol cartridges to something more like an intermediate rifle cartridge there. Though it does make me wonder if attempts at firing full-powered rifle cartridges out of automatic rifles will still be attempted here. Battle rifles I mean.

What do you think body armor in this setting may be like?

Last edited by warellis; 11-05-2017 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 11-05-2017, 06:31 PM   #30
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: GURPS Lucifer-5?

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What do you think body armor in this setting may be like?
There's no direct path from the tech boosts in energy and propulsion to materials sciences and you don't see even vaguely effective body armor in our timeline til late TL7. You'd need something from Martian bio-tech or something else found on Venus to boost their body armor technology.

Either would be possible but Martian bioplastic would be not reproducible on Earth for a significant period of time. Venus could produce extremely strong "spider silk" that could be made into the material Gurps sometimes calls "Arachnoweave".

I had already pegged Venus as the source for "veetex" the unimaginatively named "Venusian latex" that the setting would use to produce the equivalent of TL9 Skin suits from UT. Those would be needed for the large number of spacesuits used in constructing the many projects that are canonical across the Solar System.

Indirect links tot he tech boosts could be seen in use of energy hungry metals production for aluminum and then titanium. Those could be used to replace all the steel I put in my sample rocket but would not be likely to revolutionize body armor.
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