Need help with Innate Spells

ShirraWhitefur · 01-12-2009, 09:21 PM

Well, I'm once again kicking around conversion notes for a project, working on races, power sets, and so on, and I find myself whistling happily and churning away, till I come to the part of using a spell from Magic as an innate power for a person or race. And I set myself to putting it down, vaguely remembering the knack stuff from 3rd edition, stop.. and mutter, "I actually have no idea at all how to do this bit."

And after skimming around and hunting around in the books, I'm still scratching my head.

So, lets take an example that I -won't- be using in the game. Lets say we have a race of silly people who all can cast, as an innate spell, resurrection, cure blindness, seek earth, and fireproof. Gets nice and messily across colleges.
This is in a setting that already will have normal magery and power investiture for 'divine' magics.

Now the final additional quirk in the mix. Only being able to cast the cure blindness spell when asked to by redheads. That should throw an accessibility issue into the mix. If someone can construct that, then I can probably deconstruct it and use it for the big mess of things on my plate. If put together and pointed out with some page references for the various books so I can actually read up on it, that'd be a lot better.. I really don't like having to sit down and harass the forum for aid, but I'm getting this bad feeling I keep reading right past the information.

- Shirra

entitivity · 01-12-2009, 11:00 PM

I think the general idea is to build the "spells" as advantages.

So, first, for resurrection, you would take Affliction (Advantage: Regeneration) and Affliction (Advantage: Regrowth). Remember to give both of them the "Link" modifier because they are designed to work simultaneously, as well as any "Limited Use" modifier appropriate for how often they can "cast" the spell. Finally, if you want it to be magical just add the "Magical" power source modifier from GURPS powers.

It's a similar process to "cure blindness". In that case, take an Affliction that negates a disadvantage (blindness).

Nymdok · 01-12-2009, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShirraWhitefur

... Lets say we have a race of silly people who all can cast, as an innate spell, resurrection, cure blindness, seek earth, and fireproof....

Now the final additional quirk in the mix. Only being able to cast the cure blindness spell when asked to by redheads....

Ressurection is covered on P151 and its a whopping 229 points!
Curing Blindness is covered under rejuvination on that same page, but keep in mind that it covers blindness via disease AND blindness via afffliction. Choosing one or the other would dramatically reduce the point cost [139].

Seek Earth - although about as useful as Detect Self, this is not too tough.
So we have from the Basic Set
Detect(VeryCommon) 30 points.

Fireproof is a bit different as there isnt really a 'total immunity to fire' modifier.
So the easy way is use
DR 1 - 5 points/lvl
Only Heat/Fire -40%
-Heat/Fire DR is 3 poitns per level let em buy what they will.

This is for constant Fire resistance. To make it switchable, lay a little costs fatigue(4) -20% this allows them to buy it at a mere 2 points per level!

so for a mere 20 points, (and 4 FP to switch it on for one minute) you get DR 10 VS fire which will protect them against all but the beefiest fireballs.

as far as being asked by redheads. The asking aprt isnt much of a limiter, but redheads only make up 2% of the world population which means that its worth -40%. P99

Make Sense Now?
Nymdok

transmetahuman · 01-12-2009, 11:51 PM

Fantasy has racially innate spells (equivalent to 3e knacks) priced as: Required level of Magery, possibly at a hefty discount if it's only for one (-80%) or a few (up from there) spells; PLUS one point per spell in the prerequisite chain (tables in the back of Magic or Thaumatology, each working on different assumptions); PLUS the normal skill cost to get the spell at the level you decide the race needs it at. So, for example, an IQ 10 race that can Ignite Fire at skill 15 at will pays 1 (one-spell Magery 0) + 0 (no prerequisites) + 24 (I think - for the IQ/H skill at 15).

Power-Ups 2: Perks has an entirely different method; the one point Charm perk replaces any need for Magery above 0 (if the spell would normally require it) and any spell prerequisites; you only need minimal magery (or a High Mana environment) and points equivalent to what you'd pay for the skill (though it's explicitly not learned nor can it be increased past the racial fixed level). So that same race, in a High Mana world, would pay 1 (Charm) + 24 (skill 15) - the same in this case, but for powerful spells there's a BIG difference.

Since a Charm isn't a skill, I guess you could put any limitation you like on the point total as if it were an advantage. Or you could try to reverse engineer the Adjustable Spells stuff from Thaumatology into limitation rules, but that doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

Too lazy to look up page refs, sorry. :)

ShirraWhitefur · 01-13-2009, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transmetahuman

Fantasy has racially innate spells (equivalent to 3e knacks) priced as: Required level of Magery, possibly at a hefty discount if it's only for one (-80%) or a few (up from there) spells; PLUS one point per spell in the prerequisite chain (tables in the back of Magic or Thaumatology, each working on different assumptions); PLUS the normal skill cost to get the spell at the level you decide the race needs it at. So, for example, an IQ 10 race that can Ignite Fire at skill 15 at will pays 1 (one-spell Magery 0) + 0 (no prerequisites) + 24 (I think - for the IQ/H skill at 15).

Power-Ups 2: Perks has an entirely different method; the one point Charm perk replaces any need for Magery above 0 (if the spell would normally require it) and any spell prerequisites; you only need minimal magery (or a High Mana environment) and points equivalent to what you'd pay for the skill (though it's explicitly not learned nor can it be increased past the racial fixed level). So that same race, in a High Mana world, would pay 1 (Charm) + 24 (skill 15) - the same in this case, but for powerful spells there's a BIG difference.

Since a Charm isn't a skill, I guess you could put any limitation you like on the point total as if it were an advantage. Or you could try to reverse engineer the Adjustable Spells stuff from Thaumatology into limitation rules, but that doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

Too lazy to look up page refs, sorry. :)

That is, however, exactly what I was looking for. My apologies to the folk who built the advantages via powers (the opposite of what I was looking for), I needed to get at spells. Some of the things I want to do could be built as powers but for astronomical and unnecessary costs.. Hence that resurrection example. Some of the things work nice and smoothly as powers instead, and those I've already done up rather than meddle with things unnecessarily complicated.
I'm thinking of working on a middle ground between the two sets of costs here.. Freebies for pre-reqs is way too easy.. but full cost of pre-reqs that you can't use for anything else is too costly. Okay, the race as a whole can do that Cure Blindness thing, but any magery for yourself and spells for yourself buy up from scratch. Doesn't seem quite fair to charge full value for everything you can't use.

- Shirra

01-12-2009, 09:21 PM	#1
ShirraWhitefur Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Grand Rapids, MI, USA	Need help with Innate Spells Well, I'm once again kicking around conversion notes for a project, working on races, power sets, and so on, and I find myself whistling happily and churning away, till I come to the part of using a spell from Magic as an innate power for a person or race. And I set myself to putting it down, vaguely remembering the knack stuff from 3rd edition, stop.. and mutter, "I actually have no idea at all how to do this bit." And after skimming around and hunting around in the books, I'm still scratching my head. So, lets take an example that I -won't- be using in the game. Lets say we have a race of silly people who all can cast, as an innate spell, resurrection, cure blindness, seek earth, and fireproof. Gets nice and messily across colleges. This is in a setting that already will have normal magery and power investiture for 'divine' magics. Now the final additional quirk in the mix. Only being able to cast the cure blindness spell when asked to by redheads. That should throw an accessibility issue into the mix. If someone can construct that, then I can probably deconstruct it and use it for the big mess of things on my plate. If put together and pointed out with some page references for the various books so I can actually read up on it, that'd be a lot better.. I really don't like having to sit down and harass the forum for aid, but I'm getting this bad feeling I keep reading right past the information. - Shirra

01-12-2009, 11:00 PM	#2
entitivity Join Date: Sep 2006	Re: Need help with Innate Spells I think the general idea is to build the "spells" as advantages. So, first, for resurrection, you would take Affliction (Advantage: Regeneration) and Affliction (Advantage: Regrowth). Remember to give both of them the "Link" modifier because they are designed to work simultaneously, as well as any "Limited Use" modifier appropriate for how often they can "cast" the spell. Finally, if you want it to be magical just add the "Magical" power source modifier from GURPS powers. It's a similar process to "cure blindness". In that case, take an Affliction that negates a disadvantage (blindness).

01-12-2009, 11:51 PM	#4
transmetahuman Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA, USA	Re: Need help with Innate Spells Fantasy has racially innate spells (equivalent to 3e knacks) priced as: Required level of Magery, possibly at a hefty discount if it's only for one (-80%) or a few (up from there) spells; PLUS one point per spell in the prerequisite chain (tables in the back of Magic or Thaumatology, each working on different assumptions); PLUS the normal skill cost to get the spell at the level you decide the race needs it at. So, for example, an IQ 10 race that can Ignite Fire at skill 15 at will pays 1 (one-spell Magery 0) + 0 (no prerequisites) + 24 (I think - for the IQ/H skill at 15). Power-Ups 2: Perks has an entirely different method; the one point Charm perk replaces any need for Magery above 0 (if the spell would normally require it) and any spell prerequisites; you only need minimal magery (or a High Mana environment) and points equivalent to what you'd pay for the skill (though it's explicitly not learned nor can it be increased past the racial fixed level). So that same race, in a High Mana world, would pay 1 (Charm) + 24 (skill 15) - the same in this case, but for powerful spells there's a BIG difference. Since a Charm isn't a skill, I guess you could put any limitation you like on the point total as if it were an advantage. Or you could try to reverse engineer the Adjustable Spells stuff from Thaumatology into limitation rules, but that doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Too lazy to look up page refs, sorry. :) Last edited by transmetahuman; 01-12-2009 at 11:56 PM.