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Old 06-26-2019, 02:17 PM   #1
FeiLin
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Some questions on Spaceships

I'm trying to read through Spaceships, and I'm having some difficulties (it feels I'm doing more referencing and turning pages than actually reading). I read most of the rules, and decided to try a simulated fight between simple fighters. In the process, I was driven to such a despair that I went through any errata I could find in hopes that something was missing (alas, I couldn't find anything helpful).

First up, a straight-forward question: is it possible to fire identical weapons of different batteries at the same time without multitasking penalties? I assume it is possible to at least do with penalties, but there's a sentence that didn't make sense to me: "identical fixed mount weapons in a major, medium, secondary, or tertiary battery". Afaik, a major battery can only have one weapon, so it would be redundant to include them in that list, so I was thinking maybe it's supposed to be "identical fixed mount weapons of [a] battery" (ie that if they're identical they're considered to have the same trigger). Failing that, are there any ways to link them? I couldn't see anything in the book, so could that be done with Basic or something?

Secondly, do missiles only do "normal" damage? They would logically be ex and/or burn, also with some AD, but I couldn't find that info about missiles.

In general, is there like a "Guide to Spaceships", that gives some easy to follow examples or something...?



I'll be back... (with more questions, probably)
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Old 06-26-2019, 02:42 PM   #2
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Some questions on Spaceships

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Originally Posted by FeiLin View Post
First up, a straight-forward question: is it possible to fire identical weapons of different batteries at the same time without multitasking penalties?
I see no reason why they couldn't be fire-linked, even if there aren't explicit rules to allow them to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeiLin View Post
Secondly, do missiles only do "normal" damage? They would logically be ex and/or burn, also with some AD, but I couldn't find that info about missiles.
They are entirely impact weapons, without a significant explosive payload (they might have something akin to such to allow them to be used as proximity warheads) - largely because in space you can get up to sufficiently high relative velocities that your impact alone exceeds the power of any comparable mass of conventional explosive. They simply do crushing damage. Do note that when not used as proximity warheads, they have a (2) Armor Divisor.
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Old 06-26-2019, 02:57 PM   #3
RyanW
 
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Default Re: Some questions on Spaceships

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeiLin View Post
First up, a straight-forward question: is it possible to fire identical weapons of different batteries at the same time without multitasking penalties? I assume it is possible to at least do with penalties, but there's a sentence that didn't make sense to me: "identical fixed mount weapons in a major, medium, secondary, or tertiary battery". Afaik, a major battery can only have one weapon, so it would be redundant to include them in that list, so I was thinking maybe it's supposed to be "identical fixed mount weapons of [a] battery" (ie that if they're identical they're considered to have the same trigger). Failing that, are there any ways to link them? I couldn't see anything in the book, so could that be done with Basic or something?

Secondly, do missiles only do "normal" damage? They would logically be ex and/or burn, also with some AD, but I couldn't find that info about missiles.
By the rules, I think it has to be all in one weapon battery system, but I'm always tempted to ignore that and allow a single gunner operate all identical weapons that can be brought to bear with no penalty (including turrets and weapons in different locations). Spaceships seems to think that slaving multiple turrets to a single director is impossible, despite it being pretty standard as far back as WWII.

As for missiles, they are assumed to be kinetic impactors, not explosive warheads. At the speeds involved, the most effective way to kill something is to hit it with something heavy. Be sure you are using the basic damage for the warheads and the multiplier for the impact speed.
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Old 06-26-2019, 03:13 PM   #4
FeiLin
 
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Default Re: Some questions on Spaceships

I'd interpret the rules as disallowing multiple batteries to operate "as one", even though it's a bit counter-intuitive (an X-Wing would be less useful, for instance). Multiple engines can be considered to be an engine plate or simply a bigger one for the added effects. Imo, it'd make sense if multiple batteries could be combined to the same battery (at least with enough complexity or something). Do linked weapons fire at a higher RoF, or are they considered individual rolls, btw? And if they're separate, are they Dodged together (ie the Dodge MoS "spills over" to the other linked shots)?

Right, I missed that note on the missile AD. But regarding missiles, why are the base relative velocities different based on what scale the encounter is at? That makes no (intuitive) sense to me, or does a missile continuously accelerate (or at least is considered to do so in space)?
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Old 06-26-2019, 03:57 PM   #5
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Some questions on Spaceships

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Originally Posted by FeiLin View Post
why are the base relative velocities different based on what scale the encounter is at?
Longer distance scales, like shorter time scales, are used when the drives are higher performance. That is, the ships (and missiles) are normally moving faster. If you had slow ships, you wouldn't choose the Distant scale over Standard or Close. Or to look at it the other way around, if you have slow ships, short-range weapons, and Distant scale, you're going to have a long, boring combat as the ships aren't fast enough to close the distance and get into range.

It's not that the longer scale makes the missiles move faster, as it is that if you're using that scale, the missiles would have to be moving faster to hit such distant (and fast) targets (or else there'd be no point in using them). It's not a direct cause-and-effect (distance makes missiles go faster), but a correlation (fast ships means Distant scale, but also means faster missiles which along with the faster ships means relative velocities are typically going to be higher).

The basic combat system (as well as the SS design system) is meant to be fairly abstract and simple. It's not a system of solving Newtonian mechanics equations to determine the actual speed from exact known positions and elapsed times. Lots of values are approximations and averages, not hard engineering numbers.
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Old 06-26-2019, 04:32 PM   #6
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: Some questions on Spaceships

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeiLin View Post
First up, a straight-forward question: is it possible to fire identical weapons of different batteries at the same time without multitasking penalties? I assume it is possible to at least do with penalties, but there's a sentence that didn't make sense to me: "identical fixed mount weapons in a major, medium, secondary, or tertiary battery". Afaik, a major battery can only have one weapon, so it would be redundant to include them in that list, so I was thinking maybe it's supposed to be "identical fixed mount weapons of [a] battery" (ie that if they're identical they're considered to have the same trigger). Failing that, are there any ways to link them? I couldn't see anything in the book, so could that be done with Basic or something?
By the book? No, it's not possible. At all. It's clearly not possible with penalties, because "A single character may never perform more than one gunnery task per turn" - it's either one task with no penalty, or impossible.

This is, obviously, not how the people writing the example ships in Spaceships 4 understood things. Or, based on testimony, how at least some of the playtesters understood things.

Regrettably, Spaceships has a really bad problem with not paying attention to its own text. I don't know what anybody can do about that at this point.
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Old 06-26-2019, 04:54 PM   #7
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Some questions on Spaceships

[QUOTE=FeiLin;2271096]I'd interpret the rules as disallowing multiple batteries to operate "as one", even though it's a bit counter-intuitive (an X-Wing would be less useful, for instance). /QUOTE]

Why would an X-Wing have more than one battery?
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Old 06-26-2019, 05:15 PM   #8
Ulzgoroth
 
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Default Re: Some questions on Spaceships

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Why would an X-Wing have more than one battery?
Because you want the guns on it to be bigger than secondaries, presumably.

And/or because you're using the Starhawk (SS4 p12) as the blatant X-Wing take that it is.
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Old 06-26-2019, 06:31 PM   #9
Stormcrow
 
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Default Re: Some questions on Spaceships

The batteries on the Starhawk are fixed mounts. It's got one missile system and four X-ray laser systems. The gunnery task lets you choose "a single turret weapon; a single spinal weapon; all identical fixed mount weapons in a major, medium, secondary, or tertiary battery." So you can take a single gunnery task to fire all four of the Starhawk's X-ray lasers simultaneously.

But you can't multitask at all with gunnery. "A single character may never perform more than one gunnery task per turn (with the exception of spreading fire)."

As for tying together all the turrets in a battery, or all the turrets in every battery, why not? Spaceships doesn't expect you to take its rules so rigidly that you can't make them conform to your ideas. If tying together turrets is a thing you can do in your setting, then do it.
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Old 06-26-2019, 08:27 PM   #10
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Default Re: Some questions on Spaceships

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Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
The batteries on the Starhawk are fixed mounts. It's got one missile system and four X-ray laser systems. The gunnery task lets you choose "a single turret weapon; a single spinal weapon; all identical fixed mount weapons in a major, medium, secondary, or tertiary battery." So you can take a single gunnery task to fire all four of the Starhawk's X-ray lasers simultaneously.
It says "in a battery", so that probably means you can only group the weapons that are in a single battery.
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