04-17-2018, 12:16 AM | #11 |
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
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Re: High tech armor vs Ultra-tech armor
Well, your original post seems to suggest that you're allowing TL 9 as well as TL 8 armor. So, just could define the Advanced Body Armor as being low-to-midrange TL 9 body armor, rather than the best TL 8. There's absolutely stuff that will punch through it, even at TL 8, so I don't think it's too game-breaking to allow it. They'll be hard to hit with pistol bullets, sure, but they should still worry about big rifles, especially with armor-piercing rounds. And at TL 9, with the right ammunition, even large pistols can be a threat - someone with a TL 9 magnum pistol (4d+1 pi++ damage) loaded with APEP ammo (armor divisor 3) will, on average, get about 3.35 points of damage through, which is then multiplied for pi+ damage type. That will put some pain in most people's day.
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04-17-2018, 12:21 AM | #12 | |
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Re: High tech armor vs Ultra-tech armor
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But comparable armor value exists as "concealable armor" in that there are vest+trauma plate combinations and standalone trauma plates that are concealable under heavy clothing up to Class IV(about DR 48) in our very late TL 8 world. Thus using the general TL progression for armor a late TL 9 one would have 1.5 times that DR value. I do highly recommend the cutting edge armor design article in pyramid 3-85 if you want to build more current armor values and specially if you want to give more options. |
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04-17-2018, 12:27 AM | #13 | |
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
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Re: High tech armor vs Ultra-tech armor
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These should be enough to be getting on with. I'm sure you can think of more. Note that I'm not suggesting you just spring this on your player. The first step should really be to talk to them out-of-character, explain that you didn't realize the stats on the armor were quite so good, and that you need to impose some controls to help make the game and the setting make sense. If they want to just ditch the armor and use a less-effective but also less-expensive version, I'd say let them. Personally, though, I'd pitch the idea of it being a buggy prototype, because frankly I think that's more interesting, and I hope your player will as well. |
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04-17-2018, 12:37 AM | #14 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: High tech armor vs Ultra-tech armor
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If that's not on the cards how about narrowing the impact of it down a bit. What's the main issue, is it the concealability? Don't forget that going by the rules box on pg66 this thing gets a -11 default penalty just on it's DR alone (35/3) so even with the +4 quality bonus its -7 to hold out. (these rules raise their own questions regarding increasing DR with increasing TL actually) In terms of sheer DR it's not actually better than vest and plates, but that does depend on how much you use the semi ablative rules for plates, and chinks/weak spots rules for rigid DR. There's also a slightly better improved assault armour in Pyramid 3/57 but it is heavy when maxed out for DR. |
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04-17-2018, 01:06 AM | #15 | |
Join Date: Dec 2015
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Re: High tech armor vs Ultra-tech armor
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04-17-2018, 01:09 AM | #16 | |
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Re: High tech armor vs Ultra-tech armor
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Those rules are in High tech so meant to be use with those armors. Both the cutting edge armor design article and Ultra tech tailored armor says that the concealability is related to armor thickness not DR. |
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04-17-2018, 03:42 AM | #17 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: High tech armor vs Ultra-tech armor
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So it's going to come down to what is the DR 35/5 advanced body armour in HT made out of in terms of the pyramid articles, and thus what the Max DR would be, and therefore what fraction of it DR 35 is. *Actually Dan Howard's article on concealed armour In Pyramid 3/53 although aimed at LT stuff makes some points that are I think general enough to apply at higher TL's as well Last edited by Tomsdad; 04-17-2018 at 03:59 AM. |
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04-17-2018, 09:58 AM | #18 | ||
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Re: High tech armor vs Ultra-tech armor
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But the HT description makes it to be Titanium Composite Scale in the article terms. Covering just the chest gives 1.155 lb/DR point or DR 15 and a base cost of 3466. The armor would be concealable under clothing or pass as ordinary civilian outerwear. So the armor value is very wrong, but a 17lb Titanium Composite Scale would result in a concealable armor. A 40lb DR 35 vest of the same material would be in the only heavy clothing conceal category. |
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04-17-2018, 10:17 AM | #19 | ||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: High tech armor vs Ultra-tech armor
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But the values given in the article are not penalties but rather general references to equivalent clothing type. i.e, there not values but rather descriptions. e.g "unconcealable heavy clothing", "outer clothing" "T-shirts", "dainty unmentionables" These to me are not very similar end results just in terms of how the result in expressed. I guess you could argue that -7 on hold out is somewhere between the first two categories? Quote:
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04-17-2018, 10:24 AM | #20 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: High tech armor vs Ultra-tech armor
The big problem with comparing DRs between various high tech armors is that GURPS likes to ignore coverage. The actual coverage of a pair of inserts is about 25% of the torso (though it's focused in areas that are relatively likely to be hit so the odds of giving protection are well over 25%); increasing coverage area increases weight but doesn't affect DR at all, and since GURPS doesn't list coverage for the smaller armor, has no game mechanical effect.
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Tags |
armor, high-tech, ultra-tech |
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