08-08-2018, 10:08 AM | #21 | ||||
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2018
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Re: Orcs as player characters
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Thanks for sharing your thinking. Is the *weight carried* advantage alone now enough of an incentive to cause a player to explore this race? I always felt it was specifically the +1 weapon bonus that *sold* the dwarf as PC; but that's my perception. Quote:
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If you take Option A, by default this in turn says there can be no extra fast individual Elves - as they cannot reach MA 14 now by taking running - and, as a result, what was once a unique racial advantage, now becomes a unique racial limitation. Is that a good thing, or a bad thing; I cannot say. Whereas, if you take Option B - as it always was - you as Designer have to feel good that this is the reflection of Elves as you intend(ed) when you release the rules back into circulation. And if you didn't feel *something* was a-miss, I presume you would not be posing the Elf question in the first place. OR, do you split the difference, and change the innate Elf racial advantage to a natural MA of 10, but with a +1 for all movement (1/2 move and full move), netting a Elf-normal 6/11 MA, and still let the players who wants to, then additionally add the running talent, to take an enhanced Elf to an effective MA of 13; being a 10 + 2, plus an additional +1? Quote:
And it now causes me to pose the following question along the same lines: Would you consider putting the +1 weapon damage for Dwarves back in - or give the race your new Weapon Specialty Talent, for that matter - IF they had to take an equally debilitating counter-balance disadvantage (like the Elf/Bug thing), such as making Dwarves extra prone to drowning in water (due to their disproportionate weight to size ratio) or some such reason like their extra mass, invokes a constant -1 MA or -2 MA to all movement (the opposite of an Elf MA bonus) for the race, or *both*? Or, are you already pat on the Dwarf question at this time? JK Last edited by Jim Kane; 08-08-2018 at 12:14 PM. Reason: Correction for Clarity |
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08-08-2018, 11:18 AM | #22 |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Orcs as player characters
Check out Three Hearts and Three Lions (Poul Anderson, novella in 1953) for what very well might be the origin of why dwarves all seem to have scottish accents. :-)
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08-08-2018, 11:38 AM | #23 | |
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: Orcs as player characters
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Dwarves could logically have base MA 8, due to short legs. In GURPS they have the equivalent. They could have the +1 damage but not let it stack with the weapon Expert talent's +1 if they get that. |
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08-08-2018, 12:21 PM | #24 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2018
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Re: Orcs as player characters
And by the same thinking, would you agree that it is equally logical to accept that Halflings - also having shorter than human legs - as a race, *should not* suffer a MA penalty due to the established overt nimbleness of the species; where their natural nimbleness makes up in speed what they lack in leg length?
JK Addendum - Another key thing to consider from a GM-perspective which is really important is: A party can only travel as fast as it's slowest member. So, while regular travel in the labyrinth is at 3MH's per turn (MA of 3 on a Labyrinth Map - which is slow enough to map and spot things), but when it comes time to "Run Away" from Big Bad, the Dwarf will *experience* the disadvantage, and will have to deal with the *risk* of enjoying the Dwarf weapon/weight bonuses... and his "friends" will also have to decide how they - as a group - will have to cope (or not) with the moral/loyalty-issue of dealing with the slow, heavy guy in the rear... as Big Bad chases the Adventurers through the tunnels. *This* is a role-play quandary I personally like. :::insert maniacal laughter::: Last edited by Jim Kane; 08-08-2018 at 12:31 PM. Reason: Add addendum |
08-08-2018, 12:24 PM | #25 | |
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
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Re: Orcs as player characters
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08-08-2018, 12:35 PM | #26 | |
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
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Elves as fast runners?
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I prefer that the different races be ... different from each other. Sure a campaign could have every race being the same except the paint job, but I would rather than each race is significantly different from each other, with real advantages and disadvantages. Ideally the races should be roughly balanced. In TFT as written, the +2 MA for Elves was a huge advantage. Their -3 DX penalty for crawly things does not come up as often as the MA helps them, and is a weird disadvantage for Elves. (Elves live in the woods and freak out over insects???) Anyway, an Elf with Running moving 14 is fine to me. But cool advantages need to be balanced somehow. Warm regards, Rick. |
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08-08-2018, 02:52 PM | #27 | |
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: Orcs as player characters
Elves with Running at MA 14 seemed ok to me in practice. To me it's more about what their MA 12 is supposed to represent, and that it make sense.
pardon the howitzers... I'm curious what the new answer will be about Running talent (and/or elf bonuses) combining with armor and encumbrance. I see pros/cons of doing it in any combination of ways. I guess I'm slightly partial to having plate/chain set your MA to 6 ignoring elf/running (I'd also ignore innate MA 8 for that), since MA 4 seems awful and if you can get MA 8 in chain/plate with Running, it seems like it'd be one of those "only somewhat lame people wear heavy armor and don't get Running" things. Quote:
Really I'm not especially attached to any of it. At most, I'm interested in the dwarves, and was sort of attached to their +1 damage with ax/mace/hammer, even though I wasn't sure how to make sense of it unless there's a talent that could do the same thing. Though I liked it, I also had to admit it was probably the strongest of the racial bonuses unless you contemplated halfling-abuse. There's also the thing about elves (and giants, reptile men, and centaurs) having double lifespans... though the attribute point cap will help GMs figure out how to stat out really old/experienced elves. Last edited by Skarg; 08-08-2018 at 02:58 PM. |
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08-08-2018, 03:34 PM | #28 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2018
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Re: Orcs as player characters
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Your legs? Oh, I am quite fond of mine ;-) Quote:
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I like the original concept of the advantage/disadvantage variety as defined by "race" a lot more than the idea making the races more homogenized in terms of operational mechanics. So if anyone was to ask me, I would actually suggest even greater variety in the bonuses/limiations of each race, than less. But that is what *house rules* are for. JK |
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08-08-2018, 03:52 PM | #29 |
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alsea, OR
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Re: Orcs as player characters
I liked the differential races, and not every PC being 32 points + 10 MA.
Elves with running at MA 14? Yep! Was a huge advantage, but it SHOULD be one. |
08-08-2018, 06:53 PM | #30 | ||
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: Orcs as player characters
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Although I enjoyed the dwarf +1 damage, I thought it was pretty clearly like Dwarves are just better than human fighters as long as they use those weapons, and my issue with that is/was that it seemed "simply better". I don't particularly want dwarves to have to be MA 8 but it makes sense and would have them interestingly different rather than just better. (I sort of want there to be a +1 damage axe talent, so I can give dwarves a discount on it so I can keep the old-TFT-style dwarves in a way that makes good sense to me. That may be how I end up house-ruling it.) To me the most important thing is that races feel appropriately different. So I tend to prefer races be statted to mainly match their descriptions functionally. I don't really want them to be particularly "balanced" against each other, as long as some aren't better or worse in a way that feels off. Instead I'd like them to be interestingly & appropriately distinct, which the TFT races did. I mainly just hope TFT races retain their unique general flavor (which it seems to me is largely that they are individuals and not caricatures) and its distinctness from the flavors they have in other games. Quote:
One quibble for me is that the starting minimum attributes have no real effect except on lopsided characters. How many PCs are ST 6-7 elves or DX 6-7 dwarves? So mainly the effect is you don't get to have a DX 8-9 elf or a ST 8-9 dwarf, which again is barely noticeable. Last edited by Skarg; 08-08-2018 at 07:01 PM. |
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