How is Hidebound a disadvantage?

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

Hidebound is ... two levels of an anti-talent that applies to an occasional adventuring activity, doesn't prohibit learning and doesn't include a reaction penalty.
Anti-Talent 2 (Can Learn Skills, -25%; No Reaction Penalty, -25%) [-5]

Are you looking to replace the existing mechanics or to add more?

Adding more mechanical bite to the disadvantage should increase its' value; the easiest way of doing that would be to treat it as an unmodified anti-talent -- adding back in the skill prohibition and the reaction penalty. Replacing it involves deciding if it penalizes attributes, skills, reaction rolls or imposes a self-control check. As a player, I'd push back on imposing a self-control check as Hidebound shouldn't be a hard compel but rather a soft compel like Code of Honor.

Hmmm, an anti-talent might not be a bad idea. I have some specific races in mind, and saying "You can't use certain skills period" and adding an additional penalty like the predictability, might be perfect for my needs. It would result in a more expensive version of the disadvantage, but I'm okay with that.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

Hmmm, an anti-talent might not be a bad idea. I have some specific races in mind, and saying "You can't use certain skills period" and adding an additional penalty like the predictability, might be perfect for my needs. It would result in a more expensive version of the disadvantage, but I'm okay with that.

Hidebound isn't an anti-talent, it can apply to nearly any skill, see Kromm's post.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

Hidebound isn't an anti-talent, it can apply to nearly any skill, see Kromm's post.

Doesn't mean the anti-talent view is without merit: its just flexible about which skills and situations it applies to.

[Captain Joy]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

As a player, I'd push back on imposing a self-control check as Hidebound shouldn't be a hard compel but rather a soft compel like Code of Honor.

(At the risk of going off topic, I must ask Sunrunners_Fire about this. Whenever he is of a different mind than me, my mind is concerned.)

To me, it's the opposite. Things with a self-control check are soft compels as you can roll to avoid them. Things without a self-control check are hard compels because they're always in force. E.g. To me, adding a self-control check to Hidebound would make it less of a disadvantage. Please disabuse me of my false notion or concede that I'm correct.

[SCAR]

Originally Posted by Frost

I would tend to agree with this. I would however substitute culture or group for race. They are not incapable of learning new things, however hard they find it and this will still breed a fairly wide degree of divergence over the entire species.

Differences between groups may even be more pronounced than in cultures without hidebound because the options used by any given group closely reflect their specific experiences.

Interesting.
That implies to me that a Hidebound Race is more likely to see stronger cultural differences between different social groups/tribes/nations than a non-Hidebound Race.
Each group/tribe in a Hidebound Race would develop their own mechanisms/'rituals' for dealing with different situations, and are less likely to adopt any different, even if marginally better, patterns of a neighbouring group.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

Hidebound isn't an anti-talent, it can apply to nearly any skill, see Kromm's post.

No, Hidebound as written is more of an anti-daredevil or anti-higher-purpose. Or, really, the opposite of Versatility. But I'm entertaining the notion of reflecting the themes of Hidebound in a completely different way.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Captain Joy

(At the risk of going off topic, I must ask Sunrunners_Fire about this. Whenever he is of a different mind than me, my mind is concerned.)

To me, it's the opposite. Things with a self-control check are soft compels as you can roll to avoid them. Things without a self-control check are hard compels because they're always in force. E.g. To me, adding a self-control check to Hidebound would make it less of a disadvantage. Please disabuse me of my false notion or concede that I'm correct.

I agree with you on that last, but making Hidebound into a self-control regulated Cannot Learn would arguably make it a harder compel because Cannot Learn is an absolute stop rather than a moderate penalty.

[NineDaysDead]

In third edition:

Obdurate -10 points
You actually dislike novelty, and usually ignore it. You react at -3 to new things; roll vs. IQ-3 to bother to investigate something new.

GURPS Update said:

Obdurate
This no longer exists. Use Incurious instead.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

In third edition:

GURPS Update said:

Huh, I'd forgotten Obdurate. Your point is not clear to me, though. Are you illustrating what an SC version of Hidebound might look like?

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

Huh, I'd forgotten Obdurate. Your point is not clear to me, though. Are you illustrating what an SC version of Hidebound might look like?

I think incurious is the place to look for "I don't like new things", and hidebound is the trait for "I can't innovate as well as my IQ says I should be able to".