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Old 03-25-2014, 03:36 PM   #21
Ulzgoroth
 
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Default Re: How is Hidebound a disadvantage?

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Originally Posted by DocRailgun View Post
It seems to me that only NPCs should have Hidebound. It's pretty much the opposite of being an adventurer (that is, a PC) of any stripe.
Hidebound is inconvenient for an adventurer, who is likely to wind up facing things they aren't prepared for even if they're well prepared, but not incompatible with adventuring.
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Old 03-25-2014, 03:36 PM   #22
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Default Re: How is Hidebound a disadvantage?

Yes, its not very heroic, buts its not on par with slave mentality, megalomaniac, or sadism. not by a long shot.

And while such characters don't work very well by themselves, they can work wonderfully in a group: think of the solid dwarf who raises his eyebrow every time something irregular is done, and says things like "And now for part I can stomache" before wading into battle.

Hidebound characters don't have to be reactive. They can be proactive, just not in some of the same places.
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Old 03-25-2014, 03:37 PM   #23
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Default Re: How is Hidebound a disadvantage?

Hidebound is all but a requirement for anybody with Code of Honor, Disciplines of Faith, Honesty, etc. – it completely fits heroic samurai, priests, and the like. It's commonly assumed that gamers like to think outside the box and play the underdog in asymmetric conflicts, but I've had plenty of players who enjoyed the challenge of staying inside the box and forcing the by-the-book solution to work at bloody cost. Many a time, one player's "Here's a creative plan that lets us prevail through stealth and guile" has been cut short by "No, that's dishonorable. We'll go through the front door, declare ourselves, and spend our men to buy victory in the time-honored fashion." Hidebound is perfect for players who like that approach.

It isn't just limited to violence, incidentally. I've had these same players roleplay artificers and other "inventive" types this way. "We need a clever solution." "Nonsense . . . the same old one is fine. Just use more power. Much easier than the hassle of inventing something."
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Old 03-25-2014, 03:52 PM   #24
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Default Re: How is Hidebound a disadvantage?

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Hidebound is all but a requirement for anybody with Code of Honor, Disciplines of Faith, Honesty, etc. – it completely fits heroic samurai, priests, and the like.
That seems to be going a bit far. They fit together well, sure, but being innovative and fettered at the same time isn't a crazy outlier, at least for PC-types.
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Old 03-25-2014, 03:54 PM   #25
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Default Re: How is Hidebound a disadvantage?

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Originally Posted by NineDaysDead View Post
Yes.
This statement doesn't follow from your first statement. People often enjoy doing hard things.
People often don't enjoy doing hard things. Hidebound people don't enjoy doing things that involve new ideas, and that makes them hard.

Last edited by David Johnston2; 03-25-2014 at 04:04 PM.
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Old 03-25-2014, 04:01 PM   #26
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Default Re: How is Hidebound a disadvantage?

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
It fits my idea of a barbarian that just wants to smash problems. Simple direct solutions even when indirect methods would work far better.

Or even the bureaucratic dogmatic cleric that follows "the book" on what is and is not the right thing to do.

Classic henchman that does what his leader tells him to even while muttering to himself, "this is never gonna' work."
Indeed - if you're going to play a "dumb muscle" character this is virtually free points. If you turn IQ into a dump stat you'll need to get your ideas somewhere else anyway.

Likewise, for dogmatic characters, bigots and zealots it's really useful ... and may represent how they got that way (whereas someone who has got like that through careful thought is a truly terrifying individual).
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Old 03-25-2014, 04:26 PM   #27
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Default Re: How is Hidebound a disadvantage?

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Originally Posted by The Colonel View Post
Indeed - if you're going to play a "dumb muscle" character this is virtually free points. If you turn IQ into a dump stat you'll need to get your ideas somewhere else anyway.
So is every disad. If you're going to play someone who always kills, bloodlust is free points, if you always do without thinking, impulsiveness is free points.
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Old 03-25-2014, 04:28 PM   #28
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Default Re: How is Hidebound a disadvantage?

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Originally Posted by The Colonel View Post
if you're going to play a "dumb muscle" character this is virtually free points.
Just like a Pacifism disadvantage is free points if you're going to play a pacifist. Or to look at it from a different angle, hidebound accurately portrays a "dumb muscle" who always leads with a right cross. You can easily have a "dumb muscle" who switches things up in combat, but still can't think up creative solutions to cerebral problems. That person doesn't have Hidebound as a disadvantage, but they are less intelligent.
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Old 03-25-2014, 07:07 PM   #29
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Default Re: How is Hidebound a disadvantage?

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Originally Posted by Culture20 View Post
Just like a Pacifism disadvantage is free points if you're going to play a pacifist. Or to look at it from a different angle, hidebound accurately portrays a "dumb muscle" who always leads with a right cross. You can easily have a "dumb muscle" who switches things up in combat, but still can't think up creative solutions to cerebral problems. That person doesn't have Hidebound as a disadvantage, but they are less intelligent.
In fact, while there's nothing wrong with thinking of it as "free points" for a character who will be played as uncreative to take Hidebound, I woulld say that you should take it as a matter of course, because it matches your concept.
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Old 03-25-2014, 11:33 PM   #30
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Default Re: How is Hidebound a disadvantage?

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Hidebound people don't enjoy doing things that involve new ideas, and that makes them hard.
That's not supported by the text of Hidebound:

Quote:
Hidebound -5 points
You find it difficult to come up with an original thought. You have a -2 penalty on any task that requires creativity or invention, including most rolls against Artist skill, all Engineer rolls for new inventions, and all skill rolls made to use the Gadgeteer advantage.
There's nothing in there about how they feel about new ideas, only that they can't come up with new ideas easily.
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