[attunement/angels] New Servitor Attunement for angels of Flowers

[ISNorden]

Hug It Out

By spending 4 Essence, the angel can cause two living humans locked in combat to stop fighting one another. ("Living human" includes celestials in human vessels, but excludes undead of any kind.) Both targets must be within close range--not obscured by cover--and both must make successful Will rolls to resist this attunement. (If one person resists and the other fails, Hug It Out is completely wasted!)

If the attunement works properly, the combatants will lay any held weapons aside and deactivate any harmful powers they can control. They will then approach each other and hug calmly for a moment; most beings are affected for minutes, but demons (even in a human vessel/host) will feel compelled to hug for only seconds. (See "Crown of Joy" in the core rules for a duration guideline.)

[ladyarcana55]

Originally Posted by ISNorden

Hug It Out

By spending 4 Essence, the angel can cause two living humans locked in combat to stop fighting one another. ("Living human" includes celestials in human vessels, but excludes undead of any kind.) Both targets must be within close range--not obscured by cover--and both must make successful Will rolls to resist this attunement. (If one person resists and the other fails, Hug It Out is completely wasted!)

If the attunement works properly, the combatants will lay any held weapons aside and deactivate any harmful powers they can control. They will then approach each other and hug calmly for a moment; most beings are affected for minutes, but demons (even in a human vessel/host) will feel compelled to hug for only seconds. (See "Crown of Joy" in the core rules for a duration guideline.)

Wow! I can so see Swordies, Warriors and Stonies being so ****** by this. Of course most demons wouldn't be happy either

[Azel]

Seems a little weak (overcosted, cornercase) considering Flowers Seraphim attunement, Crown of Joy, and Charm/Harmony songs. But the thematics sound fun.

Have you considered designing this as a Virtuoso or Song Variant usage? Perhaps a Flowers' favorite one-shot relic "grenade"? Might work out better.

[fwcain]

Originally Posted by Azel

Have you considered designing this as a Virtuoso or Song Variant usage? Perhaps a Flowers' favorite one-shot relic "grenade"?

My Inner Kobal is grinning maliciously at the possibilities of this... >;-)

[cptbutton]

Originally Posted by ISNorden

Hug It Out

By spending 4 Essence, the angel can cause two living humans locked in combat to stop fighting one another. ("Living human" includes celestials in human vessels, but excludes undead of any kind.) Both targets must be within close range--not obscured by cover--and both must make successful Will rolls to resist this attunement. (If one person resists and the other fails, Hug It Out is completely wasted!)

I'm confused. What is the difference between when one failure and two failures?

A fails, B fails - fight stops, hugging ensues

A resists, B resists - fight continues, 4 Essence wasted*

(A fails, B resists) or (A resists, B fails) - fight continues, 4 Essence wasted*

What am I missing?

* But still causes Disturbance, right?

[ISNorden]

Originally Posted by cptbutton

I'm confused. What is the difference between when one failure and two failures?

A fails, B fails - fight stops, hugging ensues

A resists, B resists - fight continues, 4 Essence wasted*

(A fails, B resists) or (A resists, B fails) - fight continues, 4 Essence wasted*

What am I missing?

* But still causes Disturbance, right?

You described the mechanics exactly as I intended. (Given Novalis' distaste for violence, a one-sided success with Hug It Out would go against the spirit of her Word; the unaffected person would probably aim for his now-helpless target. That's why I made it an all-or-nothing effect; it takes two to hug!

Still, several people have objected that the Essence cost is too high, and that the effects are weaker than some existing Choir/Servitor Attunements. If I want to keep this as a standalone Servitor ability, what changes would you suggest to make Hug It Out both playable and worth the 10-point cost?

[Azel]

Well, with Cor & Eth Song of Harmony especially, I don't know if you can. Cor stops combat outright, only allowing verbal abuse, and Eth invokes calm, rational discussion. Both of these function as a blast effect, hitting multiple targets, and last minutes (even on demons, IIRC, gotta check my book later). The only real difference you get here is that the targets turn off (not lose, just turn off) their buffs and are forced to hug. Sure it may be read as some sort of temporary Eth Attraction effect or something, but what does it do and why would it matter to Novalis' word?

Now turning off someone's buffs is a great combat ability, but more prone to encouraging combat tactics. (And making them lose their buffs outright is even stronger combat fodder.) And that's counter-productive to Novalis' word. We can't go any further down that design path w/o a plus to combat and minus to Flowers' word.

Now if we travel travel down the alternate design path focusing on the hugging part you come to a similar issue. Eth Attraction already exists, and it already lasts a good, long while, far longer than this would last. The big advantage here is more than one target at the same time. However, couldn't that just be a Variant song effect? Or just use the song twice? This bleeds into redundancy and cost issues again for the attunement.

I honestly am at a loss how I could pursue either song benefit design goal without missing the mark on theme or reaching redundancy. So at that point cost design goals become moot because I can't find a way to make the benefit design worth its existence. I'm sorry I can't provide the solution you seem to want for you here -- but the positive take away could be that you saved your players 10 CP and discovered a nifty song trick (or variant). :)

[Omegonthesane]

Originally Posted by Azel

Well, with Cor & Eth Song of Harmony especially, I don't know if you can. Cor stops combat outright, only allowing verbal abuse, and Eth invokes calm, rational discussion. Both of these function as a blast effect, hitting multiple targets, and last minutes (even on demons, IIRC, gotta check my book later). The only real difference you get here is that the targets turn off (not lose, just turn off) their buffs and are forced to hug. Sure it may be read as some sort of temporary Eth Attraction effect or something, but what does it do and why would it matter to Novalis' word?

Now turning off someone's buffs is a great combat ability, but more prone to encouraging combat tactics. (And making them lose their buffs outright is even stronger combat fodder.) And that's counter-productive to Novalis' word. We can't go any further down that design path w/o a plus to combat and minus to Flowers' word.

Now if we travel travel down the alternate design path focusing on the hugging part you come to a similar issue. Eth Attraction already exists, and it already lasts a good, long while, far longer than this would last. The big advantage here is more than one target at the same time. However, couldn't that just be a Variant song effect? Or just use the song twice? This bleeds into redundancy and cost issues again for the attunement.

I honestly am at a loss how I could pursue either song benefit design goal without missing the mark on theme or reaching redundancy. So at that point cost design goals become moot because I can't find a way to make the benefit design worth its existence. I'm sorry I can't provide the solution you seem to want for you here -- but the positive take away could be that you saved your players 10 CP and discovered a nifty song trick (or variant). :)

Nitpick - I wouldn't read Corporeal Harmony as literally preventing physical combat with no save, both because doing it that way reduces the worth of the immense area-effect drain to combat stats, and because preventing violence with mind control is what Ethereal Harmony is meant to do.

That, and they have no specific different effect on demons - indeed, the idea of a diabolical tank working with a sniper team to Charm+Harmony a victim ready for perforation seems a perfectly valid abuse of Songs.

I'm not completely and utterly opposed to some redundancy in effects - e.g. Cel Attract duplicating Cherubim/Djinn, Eth Charm duplicating Habbalah, Eth Harmony duplicating Seraph of Flowers - but given this is being duplicated within a Word that greatly fits it, I'd say it should be flat-out better than the publicly available verions. Especially given the cost, I'd have done this as requiring a roll to activate from the "caster", and no saves whatsoever from the targets.

As for combat tactics - there is no reason I can think of why Novalites should not be exceedingly efficient at bringing violent conflict to an end in a manner both expedient and causing minimal harm. If they choose to abuse the tools to kill people - dissonance conditions are present.

[naraht]

Actually I think some servitors of Stone would like it. Hug tightly, activate Malakite of Stone attunement....

[ISNorden]

Originally Posted by Omegonthesane

I'm not completely and utterly opposed to some redundancy in effects - e.g. Cel Attract duplicating Cherubim/Djinn, Eth Charm duplicating Habbalah, Eth Harmony duplicating Seraph of Flowers - but given this is being duplicated within a Word that greatly fits it, I'd say it should be flat-out better than the publicly available versions. Especially given the cost, I'd have done this as requiring a roll to activate from the "caster", and no saves whatsoever from the targets.

As for combat tactics - there is no reason I can think of why Novalites should not be exceedingly efficient at bringing violent conflict to an end in a manner both expedient and causing minimal harm. If they choose to abuse the tools to kill people - dissonance conditions are present.

So for 4 Essence, two combatants would automatically have to Hug It Out as long as the angel's activation roll succeeded? (I'm guessing straight Perception check, to pick out the right people at the right moment...) THIS sounds like an attunement worth buying and playing; thanks so much!

[grins at the thought of a Divine Intervention turning a riot into a group hug]