Looking for advice on a Utility Mage build

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by CeeDub

I would love to take Magery 4, but isn't Magery 3 the recommended maximum for classic DF?

The wizard template goes up to six.

[D10]

Originally Posted by CeeDub

I would love to take Magery 4, but isn't Magery 3 the recommended maximum for classic DF? Almost certain I read that somewhere. B66!

The Wizard template in Dungeon Fantasy 1 - Adventurers allows up to six. What you have cited is the suggestion of the basic set, which is aimed at more broader brush than DF. In my table the GM makes you pay an unusual background to start with magery higher than 3, unless you are an elf. He caps it on magery 4 for starting purposes, but depending on your situation it might be possible to increase it. In doubt you always want magery over IQ, specially when starting

Originally Posted by CeeDub

I will definitely think about boosting IQ. It's easily worth it, but I might hit the CP cap with all the spells I'd like to take.

The main thing dictating if you should invest more in IQ or spells is the answer to the following question; which one it will be easier to straight buy up with points once the campaign started?

In that sense IQ is usually sacrificed for more spells, advantages, etc.
If it was my making a wizard on your budget, id try to have him be a weapon master with 16 points on staff and the sacrificial parry perk to protect my friends and hold my own without needing spells, that would cost around 37 points, 38 if you consider a weapon bond perk, which is almost 2 whole IQ points. But it is very unlikely that I will have access to that anytime soon after the campaign starts, as opposed to simply increasing my IQ

That can work if you can buy magery up to 5 or 6 since it costs half as much as IQ. But if you cant, then it becomes prohibitive, and you would either choose between having very few spells with a decent IQ or having all spells you want and a lower than ideal IQ. But its just an extra.

Originally Posted by CeeDub

Speaking of, how many CP do you usually pump into spells? As a percentage or out of 150 + disadvantages (total of ~210)?

Well, it all depends on how high your magery can get

Option A; magery up to 3 [35]
IQ 15 [100]
Now you have 75 points left to spend. Of those I would spend around 6-8 in whatever perks you want/gm allows. Around 16-20 points in skills, the basics (never forget that not putting a point in swim means you cant swim!)

Which would leave around 30 points for different spells, most of the core spells needed to change a fight can be found 6-7 spells inside a give college, so I would have good grasp of 4-5 colleges, and go from there. Whatever points are left id figure id invest where id need them.

In this case, I would favor trading IQ for spells if it came to it. One IQ point could give me a solid grasps over 3 new colleges.

Option B; Magery up to 6 [65]
IQ 12 [40]
This way you have the same skill 16 for 1 point in a hard spell but spending 30 less points than option A. These points can then be invested into spells, advantages, FP, etc. I would not lower IQ bellow 12, as that is a pre requisite of a few good spells.

If the system described in DF is used to learn new spells, which mean its hard and cumbersome to learn a single new spell, then I would want to start with most of what I think I will need, and increase IQ/magery from there.

This principle applies to anything you might want with your character which will be hard to aquire even if you have the points later on.

[CeeDub]

Okay, here's the result. Just in case you're curious about what I did with your help and advice.

I ended up spending most of my CP on spells, and this is somewhat intentional. The character's backstory is gifted mage, went to the academy, bright future, regular Hermione, blahblah, standard fare. Snuck into the forbidden section of the library and, more interested in learning spells than in the ethics of those spells, learned Steal Energy and Steal Vitality.

Now, in the campaign setting, the college of Necromancy is frowned upon at best. Talking to the spirits of the deceased is viewed as impious and often fraudulent, and may even be (mildly) illegal depending on the local magistrate. Raising the dead is a crime against the gods and nature punishable by death, often without trial.

Steal Energy and Steal Vitality are a grey area, since they couldn't prove the character had used either of them on an unwilling subject, so the verdict was expulsion from the academy. "Hermione" (frack it, I'm actually naming her that), homeless, too ashamed to go back to her parents, shunned by her mage friends and without prospects, plunged into depression. Without membership in the maging guild, she cannot practice magic professionally, although many local Lawkeepers turn a blind eye to unlicensed talents casting a spell here and there in exchange for some coins, as long as it doesn't upset the status quo.

The character is designed to be somewhat useless in a physical fight, and even combat spells are nearly nonexistent, the reasoning being that fireballs and lightning were supposed to be taught at the end of the curriculum, which is mostly reflected by the spell dependency tree. A fully trained academy mage would have more impressive spells, but fewer in total. Whole branches instead of mostly leaves. The lack of skills also reflects a near-total focus on her magical education, which now results in marketable job skills, especially when most professions require a guild membership.

ST: 9 [-10]
DX: 10 [0]
IQ: 14 [80]
HT: 12 [20]

Will: 13 [-5]
Perception: 10 [-20]
FP: 12 [0]
HP: 9 [0]

Advantages: [40]
Magery 3 [35]
Pitiable [5]

Perks: [2]
Dabbler (Masonry, Artist (Pottery), Artist (Woodworking), Carpentry) [1]
Weapon Bond (Staff) [1]

Disadvantages: [-65]
Chronic Depression (CR: 12) [-15]
Pacifism: Cannot Harm Innocents [-10]
Sense of Duty (Friends and Companions) [-5]
Shyness, Severe [-10]
Skinny [-5]
Status (Poor) -1 [-5]
Wealth (Poor) [-15]

Quirks: [-5]
Careful [-1]
Likes Rats [-1]
Suspicious [-1]
Reputation (People Affected (Mages), x0.33; Recognized sometimes (10-), x0.5) [-1]
Won't Meet Anyone's Eyes [-1]

Skills: [26]
Acting-7 [0]
Architecture-9 [0]
Area Knowledge-14 [1]
Artist (Pottery)-12 [0]
Artist (Woodworking)-12 [0]
Axe/Mace-9 [1]
Brawling-10 [1]
Camouflage-10 [0]
Carpentry-12 [0]
Climbing-5 [0]
Diagnosis-12 [1]
Fast-Talk-11 [1]
Filch-9 [1]
First Aid-15 [2]
Hiking-11 [1]
Holdout-9 [0]
Housekeeping-14 [1]
Knife-10 [1]
Naturalist-12 [1]
Panhandling-15 [1]
Pickpocket-4 [0]
Riding (Equine)-5 [0]
Scrounging-10 [1]
Search-9 [1]
Masonry-12 [0]
Spear-9 [0]
Staff-11 [4]
Stealth-10 [2]
Streetwise-11 [1]
Survival (Woodlands)-10 [1]
Swimming-12 [1]
Thaumatology-15 [2]
Throwing-7 [0]
Two-Handed Axe/Mace-6 [0]

Spells [87]
Analyze Magic-15 [1]
Animal Control (Vermin)-15 [1]
Apportation-15 [1]
Beast Soother-15 [1]
Bladeturning-15 [1]
Bless Plants-15 [1]
Blur-15 [1]
Complex Illusion-15 [1]
Continual Light-15 [1]
Cook-15 [1]
Counterspell-15 [1]
Create Air-15 [1]
Create Fire-15 [1]
Create Water-15 [1]
Cure Disease-15 [1]
Dancing Object-15 [1]
Darkness-15 [1]
Daze-15 [1]
Decay-15 [1]
Deflect Missile-15 [1]
Delay-15 [1]
Detect Magic-15 [1]
Distant Blow-15 [1]
Earth to Stone-15 [1]
Enchant-14 [1]
Foolishness-15 [1]
Grease-15 [1]
Haste-15 [1]
Heal Plant-15 [1]
Heat-15 [1]
Hide-15 [1]
Hush-15 [1]
Identify Plant-15 [1]
Identify Spell-15 [1]
Ignite Fire-15 [1]
Invisibility-15 [1]
Lend Energy-15 [1]
Lend Vitality-15 [1]
Levitation-15 [1]
Light-15 [1]
Link-15 [1]
Locksmith-15 [1]
Maintain Spell-15 [2]
Major Healing-15 [2]
Manastone-14 [1]
Manipulate-15 [1]
Minor Healing-15 [1]
Neutralize Poison-15 [1]
Night Vision-15 [1]
Perfect Illusion-15 [1]
Persuasion-15 [1]
Poltergeist-15 [1]
Prepare Game-15 [1]
Preserve Food-15 [1]
Purify Air-15 [1]
Purify Food-15 [1]
Purify Water-15 [1]
Recover Energy-15 [1]
Relieve Sickness-15 [1]
Seek Air-15 [1]
Seek Earth-15 [1]
Seek Food-15 [1]
Seek Plant-15 [1]
Seek Water-15 [1]
Sense Emotion-15 [1]
Sense Foes-15 [1]
Shape Air-15 [1]
Shape Earth-15 [1]
Shape Fire-15 [1]
Shape Plant-15 [1]
Shapeshifting (Raven)-15 [2]
Shield-15 [1]
Silence-15 [1]
Simple Illusion-15 [1]
Sleep-15 [1]
Sound-15 [1]
Steal Energy-15 [1]
Steal Vitality-15 [1]
Stop Bleeding-15 [1]
Test Food-15 [1]
Turn Blade-15 [1]
Umbrella-15 [1]
Walk on Air-15 [1]
Warmth-15 [1]

[D10]

Originally Posted by CeeDub

Okay, here's the result. Just in case you're curious about what I did with your help and advice.

I like it, although I find it odd that you would spend points in stealth and axe/mace. In your position I would buy a dabbler perk for stealth at IQ-2 or -1 I forgot how high a bonus it can go. Id also start with 8 points in staff, that way with balanced + weapon bond you get 14, which is a pretty solid value.

Also, if allowed, would buy sacrificial parry perk, to focus my fighting skills on protecting folk instead of attacking. And staff attunement for the inevitable situation where my staff would break after parrying an attack

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by D10

In your position I would buy a dabbler perk for stealth at IQ-2 or -1 I forgot how high a bonus it can go.

That's not allowed by the rules. You can't gain a bonus from Dabbler that would raise a skill to or above where putting one point in it would get it.

Stealth at 1 point with DX 10 is a 9. At best it could be Dabbled at +1 and be an 8.

[D10]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

That's not allowed by the rules. You can't gain a bonus from Dabbler that would raise a skill to or above where putting one point in it would get it.

Stealth at 1 point with DX 10 is a 9. At best it could be Dabbled at +1 and be an 8.

I have re-read dabbler and it seems a bit of an arbitrary take since this application of the rule depends on the PC having a delta between IQ and DX that makes the default under IQ higher than having a point spent which will be based on DX.

Following your interpretation, someone with DX 10 and IQ 10 would be able to buy the dabbler for +3 stealth, but someone with DX 10 and a higher IQ wouldn't
What happens if someone with IQ and DX at 10 buys the perk for +3 default in stealth and then buys up several points of IQ?

Take into consideration that it explicitly states that "If a skill has an unusually generous default, you can’t raise it to the level that actual points in the skill would buy." But it never says you cant raise it past that level due to defaulting to another attribute

Either way its good feedback