Altering the Initiative Order

[Hohenstadt]

Thanks for the replies to my noob question, helps me understand a bit more about GURPS. :)

[OldSam]

Originally Posted by ErhnamDJ

My interpretation of what he's saying is that at the beginning of combat you can use a lower Basic Speed to set your place in the order for the entire combat.

Yes, I second that (and it was already discussed earlier in this thread). The combat order is set once the fighting starts...

In several other discussions one can find evidence that the rules really assume a fixed sequence and after all just using the normal Basic Speed without changing anything also produces that result... (interrupts with wait being the only exception).
For instance in this posting it is said by RPK (though in the context of the possibilty to make initiative more random): http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...21&postcount=6

Of course all this doesn't affect 'Wait', which is still a special, but needed and very useful maneuver... ;-)

[BaHalus]

Originally Posted by Hohenstadt

This may be a stupid question (new to GURPS) but can't the Knight just state he goes after the Wizard without all this complicated rules stuff? Then next round, state the same? Or any PC state he goes after any PC/NPC?

This seems terribly complicated for a fun game night.

That is the point. There is NO round in Gurps. No universal turn, Kromm raid that more than once. What exists are individual 1sec turns for each character.
So, no such a thing as rise sequence in next round. You have to wait your turn, so you can't act before your turn, you can only delay again.

It would be like a small do nothing maneuver to alter the sequence.

In my example, with two changes, Adam actually lost a full turn after she two changes.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I read that as the fluff explanation for why you don't need to be as specific with Waits for this purpose as you do with "screw you!" Waits; not that it obviates Wait altogether.

I read it as a quite distinct statement separate from the discussion of Waits.

Kromm:

... you are allowed to name broad triggers and broad reactions as long as they aren't vague (not the same as broad) and provided that your maneuver is declared. A perfectly legal Wait would be "I wait until after my pal Jim-Bob acts, and then take an Attack maneuver against whomever Jim-Bob attacked, or my nearest foe otherwise." Complex? Sure, but it's legal. The trigger and action are specified, and most important, the maneuver is declared.

That said, you certainly can elect to use less than your full resources. You're allowed to strike at lower ST, move at less than full Move, etc. There's no reason at all why you couldn't choose to operate at lower Basic Speed. Parents do this all the time when shepherding their kids!

The use of the phrase "That said" sets the next paragraph off to stand on its own. And there does not seem to be any analytical connection between operating at lower Speed and using a Wait, which he describes as an interupt-process.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

... it only works in the first round in that it lets you chose when you start in the order. at slower point than you were capable of.

Just to be precise, that is your interpretation based on earlier, other comments from Kromm you have read. It is not clear from what he has written on this thread.

It seems to me that the Delay-Delay method discussed a few posts above can be infered as correct from the same data you draw your interpretation from.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

...Later he says you don't actually alter the sequence ...

I missed that. Is it near the first remark?

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Where does Kromm say that? Why wouldn't you be able to switch during combat then?

You quoted the relevant post yourself just above.

You are right about switching during combat. I see no reason you cannot change, provided an abuse does not occur.

[Witchking]

Eh...I have read the whole thread...

My read on RAW...at the start of combat you can pick any speed from your Max Speed to 0.25 (is there a 0.00 Speed maybe for rocks) to be your speed for the entirety of that combat.

Once set..that is it...any other step downs done via the Wait manuver.

Then the mulitple Houserules in thread.

But as a fairly careful reader that is what I get as the Talmudic reading of Basic Set Text + Krommnote (in this very thread) on the subject.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by Witchking

Eh...I have read the whole thread...

My read on RAW...at the start of combat you can pick any speed from your Max Speed to 0.25 (is there a 0.00 Speed maybe for rocks) to be your speed for the entirety of that combat.

Once set..that is it...any other step downs done via the Wait manuver.

Then the mulitple Houserules in thread.

But as a fairly careful reader that is what I get as the Talmudic reading of Basic Set Text + Krommnote (in this very thread) on the subject.

How do you infer that you cannot step down even further after combat has begun?

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

How do you infer that you cannot step down even further after combat has begun?

FWIW I agree with Witchking's summary. The no further step downs is supported by the Turn Sequence rule from the Basic Set, which I quoted much earlier in the thread:

Originally Posted by p. B363

The “turn sequence” is the order in which active characters take their turns. It is set at the start of the fight and does not change during combat.

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

How do you infer that you cannot step down even further after combat has begun?

Beyond Erics point...if you can step down at any time...Why even Have a Wait manuver?