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Old 06-06-2023, 09:29 PM   #1
hoganbball23
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Default Super jump also super speed?

So I have a character that wants to play a frogman jumper, that has basic move 9 and super jump 8. This gives you running jump 2560 yards and standing jump 1280. They are supersoldiers in space, power armor etc which leads to the stats.

The problem is pg. 82 of the basic set, which says that a jump maxes out at 5 seconds. That puts a running jump at 512 yards per second, or 1.5 times the speed of sound.

So, am I missing something? Is this how it works? How can I slow it down? Thanks.

Am I missing
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Old 06-06-2023, 09:39 PM   #2
Varyon
 
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Default Re: Super jump also super speed?

You aren't missing anything, with those stats your frogman jumps at Mach 1.5. If that's a problem, consider applying a Limitation to some levels of Super Jump that means they increase jump distance but not jumping speed. I kind of feel like -50% would be appropriate, here, but I could be convinced down to -20%. Only apply it to problematic Super Jump levels - if 512 yards/second is too fast but 256 would be fine, you'd only apply the Limitation to the last level of Super Jump, and you'll take 10 seconds for a full-distance jump.
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Old 06-06-2023, 09:56 PM   #3
Michael Thayne
 
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Default Re: Super jump also super speed?

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
You aren't missing anything, with those stats your frogman jumps at Mach 1.5. If that's a problem, consider applying a Limitation to some levels of Super Jump that means they increase jump distance but not jumping speed. I kind of feel like -50% would be appropriate, here, but I could be convinced down to -20%. Only apply it to problematic Super Jump levels - if 512 yards/second is too fast but 256 would be fine, you'd only apply the Limitation to the last level of Super Jump, and you'll take 10 seconds for a full-distance jump.
Call it underpriced if you want but there's a canonical Lighter than Air limitation for Super Jump that causes it to increase jumping distance without increasing jump Move (along with a few other effects), and it's only -10%.
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Old 06-07-2023, 04:37 AM   #4
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Default Re: Super jump also super speed?

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Originally Posted by Michael Thayne View Post
Call it underpriced if you want but there's a canonical Lighter than Air limitation for Super Jump that causes it to increase jumping distance without increasing jump Move (along with a few other effects), and it's only -10%.
Lighter than Air doesn't reduce Jump Move at all, it just causes you to drift in the direction the wind is blowing, at a rate of 1 yard per second airborne per 5 mph of wind speed. OK, I guess that would mean it does reduce Jump Move if you jump into a headwind, but that's balanced out by the fact that it increases Jump Move if you jump into a tailwind.
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Old 06-07-2023, 09:10 AM   #5
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Default Re: Super jump also super speed?

Jump for 2 rounds, land for 2 rounds, fly for the rest.

The frogman has just enough starting energy to kickstart a supersciencebiological floating sacklikeorganthing to prime it for long range floating.

It either runs out after some range is hit, or can be emptied like some sort of air brake.

So the frogman could just have a very restrictive, inertia governed flying with the accessibility that he has to do a running jump to 'calibrate the flight' or something.

You can pull something out of your sleeve for it, rules are all optional after all.
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Old 06-07-2023, 09:55 AM   #6
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Default Re: Super jump also super speed?

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Originally Posted by Lovewyrm View Post
Jump for 2 rounds, land for 2 rounds, fly for the rest.

The frogman has just enough starting energy to kickstart a supersciencebiological floating sacklikeorganthing to prime it for long range floating.

It either runs out after some range is hit, or can be emptied like some sort of air brake.

So the frogman could just have a very restrictive, inertia governed flying with the accessibility that he has to do a running jump to 'calibrate the flight' or something.

You can pull something out of your sleeve for it, rules are all optional after all.
Cannot Hover gives you a minimum speed of 1/4 your Top Speed, and Enhanced Move boosts your Top Speed but not your Air Move, meaning with more than two levels of it you cannot fly without getting up to speed some other way first, which Super Jump could give you. Personally, I feel Cannot Hover should instead require a minimum speed of 1/4 your Air Move, with the option to apply it to Enhanced Move as well if you want it to apply to Top Speed instead. To only be able to do it for relatively short distances, Maximum Duration can work, although I think that has either a 1 minute or 5 minute cooldown between uses built into it. So, assuming the frogman has Basic Speed 7 (and thus Air Move 14), Flight (Cannot Hover -15%; Maximum Duration 30 seconds -75%) [8] + Enhanced Move 2.5* (Cannot Hover -15%; Maximum Duration 30 seconds -75%) [10], for Air Move 14/84 and stall speed of 21, you'd need enough Super Jump to travel 105 yards per jump - with Move 9 (standing broadjump 5 yards, running broadjump 10 yards), that's Super Jump 4 [40] if you need a running start (standing broadjump 80 yards, running broadjump 160 yards), Super Jump 5 [50] if you don't (160/320); either way you're still looking at the same maximum "leap" distance of around 2560 yards as Super Jump 8 [80] while traveling at a much slower pace (but get better maneuverability). Fluffwise, you're probably looking at a justification along the lines of an engineered organic jetpack with a stall speed that needs a bit of time to replenish itself after a jump. In terms of efficiency, you'd be better off increasing the Maximum Duration to 1 minute -65%, which gives you the same total discount of -80% when combined with Cannot Hover but doubles your "jumping" range.

I don't think that's what OP is looking for, however. For a version of Super Jump that doesn't result in extreme velocities, you just need to come up with a value for the Limitation I suggested (where Super Jump increases distance but not velocity).


*If the GM doesn't think Enhanced Move should get Cannot Hover, increase price to [12]. If the GM doesn't think both Flight and Enhanced Move should get Maximum Duration, remove it from Flight (as that costs less), increasing its price to [34]... and note this will mean while your Enhanced Move is on cooldown you'll be able to fly freely at Air Move 14 with a stall speed of 3.5 (call it 4). If that sounds ridiculous, it's because it is, but the GM is being ridiculous in not letting Maximum Duration apply to both of the abilities it affects so whatever.
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Old 06-07-2023, 11:46 AM   #7
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Default Re: Super jump also super speed?

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Cannot Hover gives you a minimum speed of 1/4 your Top Speed, and Enhanced Move boosts your Top Speed but not your Air Move, meaning with more than two levels of it you cannot fly without getting up to speed some other way first, which Super Jump could give you. Personally, I feel Cannot Hover should instead require a minimum speed of 1/4 your Air Move, with the option to apply it to Enhanced Move as well if you want it to apply to Top Speed instead. To only be able to do it for relatively short distances, Maximum Duration can work, although I think that has either a 1 minute or 5 minute cooldown between uses built into it. So, assuming the frogman has Basic Speed 7 (and thus Air Move 14), Flight (Cannot Hover -15%; Maximum Duration 30 seconds -75%) [8] + Enhanced Move 2.5* (Cannot Hover -15%; Maximum Duration 30 seconds -75%) [10], for Air Move 14/84 and stall speed of 21, you'd need enough Super Jump to travel 105 yards per jump - with Move 9 (standing broadjump 5 yards, running broadjump 10 yards), that's Super Jump 4 [40] if you need a running start (standing broadjump 80 yards, running broadjump 160 yards), Super Jump 5 [50] if you don't (160/320); either way you're still looking at the same maximum "leap" distance of around 2560 yards as Super Jump 8 [80] while traveling at a much slower pace (but get better maneuverability). Fluffwise, you're probably looking at a justification along the lines of an engineered organic jetpack with a stall speed that needs a bit of time to replenish itself after a jump. In terms of efficiency, you'd be better off increasing the Maximum Duration to 1 minute -65%, which gives you the same total discount of -80% when combined with Cannot Hover but doubles your "jumping" range.

I don't think that's what OP is looking for, however. For a version of Super Jump that doesn't result in extreme velocities, you just need to come up with a value for the Limitation I suggested (where Super Jump increases distance but not velocity).


*If the GM doesn't think Enhanced Move should get Cannot Hover, increase price to [12]. If the GM doesn't think both Flight and Enhanced Move should get Maximum Duration, remove it from Flight (as that costs less), increasing its price to [34]... and note this will mean while your Enhanced Move is on cooldown you'll be able to fly freely at Air Move 14 with a stall speed of 3.5 (call it 4). If that sounds ridiculous, it's because it is, but the GM is being ridiculous in not letting Maximum Duration apply to both of the abilities it affects so whatever.
That does seem tricky.
What about a magical, invisible spring loaded board that, when the user consciously wants to jump, appears under the feet, and catapults the user in a parabolic arc?
Maybe the status of "being launched" is free from any restriction like that, and then it's just a matter of having the physique to absorb the landing shock?

It's kind of a stupid concept when implemented like that but ...it also kind of does the trick.

Wouldn't really know how to stat that, though, since it might be too cheap like that.
Add: That's just the mechanics, of course, reskinned/named/used to be the jump.
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Old 06-07-2023, 12:10 PM   #8
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Default Re: Super jump also super speed?

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Originally Posted by Lovewyrm View Post
That does seem tricky.
What about a magical, invisible spring loaded board that, when the user consciously wants to jump, appears under the feet, and catapults the user in a parabolic arc?
Maybe the status of "being launched" is free from any restriction like that, and then it's just a matter of having the physique to absorb the landing shock?

It's kind of a stupid concept when implemented like that but ...it also kind of does the trick.

Wouldn't really know how to stat that, though, since it might be too cheap like that.
Add: That's just the mechanics, of course, reskinned/named/used to be the jump.
... what would be the point? It's not like the 5 second limit for Super Jump has any grounding in reality to start with, it's just something arbitrarily chosen so characters with high levels of Super Jump can have a high top speed that is easily calculated - note it would require you to either jump at a shallower angle the further you're going (specifically, once you hit the 5 second limit you'd always have a maximum height of around 33*(local gravity in Earth-equivalence) yards so it takes you 2.5 seconds to fall back to Earth) or somehow have gravity affect you differently unless your broadjump is in the sweet spot of around 120-150 yards (I think broadjumps involve vertical movement equal to 1/4th horizontal, so somewhere in that range would give you around the needed 33 yards; a 60 yard jump would mean you take 2.5 seconds to fall only 15 yards, implying 0.4-0.5G, while that 2560 yard jump would mean you take only 2.5 seconds to fall 640 yards, which would call for around 20G).
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Old 06-07-2023, 01:14 PM   #9
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Default Re: Super jump also super speed?

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... what would be the point? It's not like the 5 second limit for Super Jump has any grounding in reality to start with, it's just something arbitrarily chosen so characters with high levels of Super Jump can have a high top speed that is easily calculated - note it would require you to either jump at a shallower angle the further you're going (specifically, once you hit the 5 second limit you'd always have a maximum height of around 33*(local gravity in Earth-equivalence) yards so it takes you 2.5 seconds to fall back to Earth) or somehow have gravity affect you differently unless your broadjump is in the sweet spot of around 120-150 yards (I think broadjumps involve vertical movement equal to 1/4th horizontal, so somewhere in that range would give you around the needed 33 yards; a 60 yard jump would mean you take 2.5 seconds to fall only 15 yards, implying 0.4-0.5G, while that 2560 yard jump would mean you take only 2.5 seconds to fall 640 yards, which would call for around 20G).
The point would be to perhaps end up with a circumvention of that rule and perhaps a cheaper effect.

To me, this was never a problem, since I'd just disregard such limits immediately if they stand in the way of fun (or incur too much hassle)
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Old 06-07-2023, 02:16 PM   #10
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The point would be to perhaps end up with a circumvention of that rule and perhaps a cheaper effect.

To me, this was never a problem, since I'd just disregard such limits immediately if they stand in the way of fun (or incur too much hassle)
Circumventing the rule in question (that Jump Move is equal to 1/5th the number of yards moved in the jump) is simple to do - just bring in a Limitation that makes Super Jump with it only increase distance and not velocity. Sure, it requires you to come up with a proper price for it, but that's a lot fewer steps than inventing a novel magic item and then converting that into an Advantage and then coming up with another Advantage that lets you fall from a large height without damage, and figuring out how to integrate these into a setting without magic.

Making it cheaper isn't something OP has requested, so no need to get into options to do that just yet - although I'll note that the Limitation approach automatically makes it cheaper anyway (for reference, if sticking with the idea of height being 1/4th the horizontal distance jumped, 640 yards would take around 10 seconds to fall in 1G and thus call for a 20 second jump; Jump Move 128 would do that, so toss Distance Only -50% onto two levels of Super Jump and you reduce the cost by [10] - or if you prefer Distance Only -20%, you'll instead reduce the cost by [4]).
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