Watchdog spell and "hostile intent"

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by ehrbar

How, exactly, are you rationalizing the idea that mindless undead can have intent?
.

Well really there's no such thing as truly mindless undead. They have a mind. It's sometimes a very dumb mind just carrying out simple instructions but it's a still a mind.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by mburr0003

Ahhhh....

That's not actually how the spell reads. It detects what crosses it's boundary, not what's already inside it's boundary.

s.

The Spell is of the Area type. Variations from those standard rules need to be specified and nowhere does it say that Watchdog is really a "perimeter" Spell. It only describes the "usual" case that triggers it. If it detects "hostile intent" it does it anywhere in its' Area.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Besides, it wouldn't matter. Watchdog is an area Spell with an ongoing Duration and if someone becomes hostile in that area the Spell is triggered then and that is still before the GM announces that the hostile has successfully attacked the PC.

Of course this does lead to interesting possibilities, like the evil overlord puts subliminal programming into an innocent he sends into your camp to help you, but once he's in close contact (perhaps he is a medic, a barber, a masseuer, etc) the programming kicks in and he becomes spontaneously hostile because of the activated programming.

Unfortunately he's already in close combat so you can't do much with that warning.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Plane

Of course this does lead to interesting possibilities, like the evil overlord puts subliminal programming into an innocent he sends into your camp to help you, but once he's in close contact (perhaps he is a medic, a barber, a masseuer, etc) the programming kicks in and he becomes spontaneously hostile because of the activated programming.

Unfortunately he's already in close combat so you can't do much with that warning.

You would probably still get an Active Defense, akin to the one you get when someone tries to garrote you from behind, which is a lot better than you'd get without the spell when the attacker already has a sharp blade to your neck (from giving you a shave). That's if the mage is the one getting the shave, anyway - an ally would probably be screwed, but the sudden alarm in your head would at least tell you something was amiss so you can look around and figure out it was the Barber in the Tent with the Straight Razor in short order, rather than needing to do an investigation later after the body is found, or be searching for a missing party member or whatever (possibly while the sleeper assassin is picking off the party one at a time). Heck, while the warning won't be enough to prevent the victim from being attacked, it might be enough to allow you to save them from succumbing to their wounds.

[Lovewyrm]

If you really want to kill players with geassed assassins then why worry about watchdog, unless they act without any contact to NPCs at all, anyone could be a killer then. (or rocks just fall)

Otherwise, treat it like a dice roll. You don't generally roll dice for every single action a player does, only for those that are supposed to have a major impact.

So, if a player sets up the watchdog, simply have it work if there's hostile intent from you toward them. And you should ideally always be in touch with yourself on that front.

[Purple Snit]

I'm just looking at the wording of the spell, and the intent; it's a basic magical version of bells on a line, but able to magically discern intent of anyone that crosses it. For NPCs, the GM determines that.

It isn't a global defence against any danger (if an enemy above them accidentally knocked a rock loose and it fell, would that trigger it, even though it isn't a deliberate attack? The enemy is hostile, but the act wasn't...).

And the real litmus test; if players say it works against any sort of danger or attack or even unintentional or neutral actions, it does so when their enemies use it, too.

Seems a bit too general and omnipotent for a basic alarm spell, but ymmv.

[mburr0003]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

The Spell is of the Area type. Variations from those standard rules need to be specified and nowhere does it say that Watchdog is really a "perimeter" Spell. It only describes the "usual" case that triggers it. If it detects "hostile intent" it does it anywhere in its' Area.

That's an interesting ruling that is, surprising to me, not inconsistent with the 4e spell wording. However it's entirely inconsistent with every other edition prior...

Originally Posted by 1e, 2e, 3e, 3er

Cast around an area (following the hex boundaries), this spell will warn the caster of anyone or anything crossing with hostile intent.

Originally Posted by 4e

When cast around an area, this spell warns the caster of anyone or anything crossing with hostile intent.

I kinda suspect the change was to reduce redundancy and word count* (but then why add "When"? For sentence 'aesthetics'?).

So I stand by my interpretation which has the weight of history, though I understand why 4e fans would prefer the 'new' version.


* And possibly to avoid confusion over 'how it's cast'. I dunno, maybe.


I realized today, while mulling this over between calls, that for as much as I poo-poo 4e Magic for 'just being a copypasta of 3e', it really isn't, it's got slight rewordings all over the place. So I went back to 3e and double checked, then checked the other editions to see what the historic changes to the spell have been.

Until 4e it's unambiguously never even been arguable that it would warn you of spontaneous hostility that occurred within the boundaries. That's kinda neat (the way this rules argument has evolved, to me it's neat anyway).

Originally Posted by Lovewyrm

If you really want to kill players with geassed assassins then why worry about watchdog...

Because that's the warning spell the PCs are using? Internal world consistency?

I know verisimilitude has become a taboo word the last twenty years... but...

Otherwise, treat it like a dice roll.

Make it random? o_O

So, if a player sets up the watchdog, simply have it work if there's hostile intent from you toward them.

I'm rarely hostile towards my Players. Their Characters on the other hand... ;)

[ravenfish]

Originally Posted by mburr0003

I'm rarely hostile towards my Players. Their Characters on the other hand... ;)

For that matter, it's usually the characters setting the watchdog. As far as I know, very few mages play RPGs- and, if they did, playing a mage would be a bit of a busman's holiday.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by mburr0003

So I stand by my interpretation which has the weight of history, though I understand why 4e fans would prefer the 'new' version.


;)

My association with Gurps Magic is at least as long as yours just because
I go all the way back to Fantasy 1e and there has _never_ been such a thing as a "perimeter" Spell. Area means Area.

[Rolando]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

My association with Gurps Magic is at least as long as yours just because
I go all the way back to Fantasy 1e and there has _never_ been such a thing as a "perimeter" Spell. Area means Area.

I agree, area spells affect everything inside the area. I see the Wtachdog as kind of a protection spirit surveying the area constantly in search of hostile intentions.

If it is active in a camp and one of the old time friends want to steal something from the others the caster will be alerted...at least that is how I interpret the spell.

If you take the wording of spells in GURPS Magic literally you will get some of them limited in some inconsistent ways, or buffed just the same...like allowing an arrow to trigger the spell but not if a person already inside the area have a change of heart and decides to attack someone.

But of course, each GM have the final word, as long as you are consistent and players know what to expect everything will be fine.