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09-26-2020, 01:32 PM | #31 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: What point value would you give to an advantage which lets you create manastones?
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If the rule is that Neutralize (Biological) intended for non-wild biological "power" advantages ALSO affects wild advantages (no limitations) due to them having a biological 'origin' then it would be weird that the wild advantages would not also get the -5%. Re: Neutralize and Static shouldn’t interfere with “wild” advantages that aren’t associated with any power source.The implication here, by singling out non-associated wild advantages, is that there ARE associated "wild" advantages which have a (power) source-association despite not being a "power" themselves (due to being wild). This probably means the "Origin" since there doesn't seem to be any other criteria. My assumption this was just limited to skills (chi stuff like blind fighting or power blow, magic stuff like spells) based on P97's "special skills" emphasis seems to be wrong as I overlooked the "(and advantages)" parenthesis in paragraph 3. |
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09-26-2020, 01:43 PM | #32 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: What point value would you give to an advantage which lets you create manastones?
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I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
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09-26-2020, 04:35 PM | #33 | |
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dreamland
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Re: What point value would you give to an advantage which lets you create manastones?
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As an example, a dragon can breath fire and a half-dragon half-human might be able to breath fire through use of Biological powers. The dragon can do it naturally, easily, with no more effort than a person can punch; Burning Attack 3d (Cone 5). The human can force their odd biological structure to its limits (adding Biological) and breathe fire by spending FP and their biology is particular enough that certain drugs, pathogens, etc can make it impossible to do. The dragon won't be affected since there's nothing special about it's biology, but a drug that makes the entire body go numb (or Affliction: Paralysis) would stop both of them from breathing fire because it stops them from doing a lot of things. Now, if that doesn't make sense in a given setting, then you can say that the dragon should apply Biological to it's fire breath. And maybe even wings! |
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09-26-2020, 05:03 PM | #34 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sumter, SC
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Re: What point value would you give to an advantage which lets you create manastones?
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The biggest is that the Paut Talisman "recharges" while a manastone doesn't. More over unlike powerstones you can use more than one Paut Talisman and they are only effected by the local mana level. Figuring out the point value of something like this is interesting as the recharge rate is "set" regardless of there being one dose or a 1000 (via Industrial Alchemy).
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09-26-2020, 05:10 PM | #35 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: What point value would you give to an advantage which lets you create manastones?
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Exotic-Wild and Supernatural-Wild ones OTOH ... they must specify an Origin... If the Origin shares the same name as a Source (and every one in Basic Set does share a name with one in Powers) then is that association or not? |
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09-26-2020, 06:34 PM | #36 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dreamland
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Re: What point value would you give to an advantage which lets you create manastones?
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As for Basic, it only points out a power modifier for a couple of them and blatantly points out that origins are usually just special effects. For instance, its form of Biological makes wings no different than your legs if they are a part of your race template (considering that two legs is a common trait for playable races). |
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09-26-2020, 07:20 PM | #37 | |||
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: What point value would you give to an advantage which lets you create manastones?
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Which would mean any non-powers which list an origin sharing the same name as that source are 'related' to it. About the only defense I can see for stuff like Origin:Biology is simply that Neutralize: Biological and Static: Biological doesn't exist. Wild traits don't have to worry about their Origin being related to a Source of a power if there is no -5% countermeasures in that power. If the power can't be stopped, then the related wild abilities couldn't either. The question is more why you would even allow Wild Advantages to list an origin of the same name as a source for a power modifier which has the -5% countermeasures, because then the WA is vulnerable to neutralize/static without getting a discount for it. Quote:
It has no effect if nobody has a DNA sequencer, just like "-5 to use in Low Mana" is a special effect for 99% of the campaign if 99% of the campaign is spent in Normal Mana. |
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09-26-2020, 10:45 PM | #38 |
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dreamland
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Re: What point value would you give to an advantage which lets you create manastones?
I'm not sure if you understood what I said, you still seem to be using source and origin interchangeably. For instance, I might have wings that let me fly which is Flight (Winged). If I got them because of magic, they would originate from magic, but if they work because of structure and not because of magic, they wouldn't take the power source because neither countermeaures nor mana levels have any effect on them. However, a mage might have a spell that gives them wings for a minute and that would be Flight (Costs 1 FP, Magical, Winged) and is further limited because they can't fly in a No Mana Zone where I can.
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09-27-2020, 01:09 AM | #39 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: What point value would you give to an advantage which lets you create manastones?
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I think wings which follow biological law would still be 'related' to magic simply cause magic endowered it. |
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09-27-2020, 02:41 AM | #40 |
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dreamland
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Re: What point value would you give to an advantage which lets you create manastones?
Powers p179 "Source and origin are not the same thing". And your second line was my point, the wings' origin was magic but that doesn't mean they function the same way "spells" do (advantages with magic as a source). They are related to magic and there might even be leftover magic on the person that can be detected (maybe a silly quirk "Flags as a wizard").
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