Help with Elven Blades

[CeeDub]

I'd peg Hadhafang as a cavalry saber (Arwen certainly seemed ready to use it on horseback). Ravenfish has a good point about elven weapons likely being designed to be light and nimble, but reading the Saber skill description and guessing how it would probably be wielded, I'd err on the side of Broadsword. Definitely not a rapier, though, it's clearly designed to cut as well as thrust.

The others are even more difficult without measurements. I'd say Thranduil's sword (named UC3042.jpg) is either a Smallsword or a Saber.

I think Fred Brackin has the right idea about a nagimaki being very close to the Lhang.

[ravenfish]

Originally Posted by CeeDub

Definitely not a rapier, though, it's clearly designed to cut as well as thrust.

Point of order: historical rapiers (as opposed to foils designed purely for sport) were edged blades that could both cut and thrust. GURPS: Low Tech and Martial Arts both include the Edged Rapier which does respectable cutting damage (although less than a heavier broadsword) using the Rapier skill.

[pawsplay]

Originally Posted by Lameth

What type of skills are used for these blades? Saber? Trusting bastard sword?

https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Elven_s...=Hadhafang.jpg

https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Elven_s...ile=UC3042.jpg

https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Elven_s...lven_sword.jpg

thank you!

1) Scimitar / sabre, 19th century style
2) backsword/cavalry sabre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1796_Heavy_Cavalry_Sword
3) kind of weird, but with two hands and a relatively short blade, I'd say that's a bastard sword or nagamaki

[CeeDub]

Originally Posted by ravenfish

Point of order: historical rapiers (as opposed to foils designed purely for sport) were edged blades that could both cut and thrust. GURPS: Low Tech and Martial Arts both include the Edged Rapier which does respectable cutting damage (although less than a heavier broadsword) using the Rapier skill.

Right, I was going by the skill description in Basic, where Rapier is defined as a thrusting sword. I know that rapiers have a cutting edge, but they are described as having narrow blades, so we can be reasonably certain that Hadhafang is not one.

Personally, I feel that between Rapier, Smallsword, and Broadsword, Saber fills too small a niche to be worth points, especially with heavy sabres explicitly classed as broadswords, but that is neither here nor there.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

So if I were lazy I would use sword stats, and if I were hard-working I would create stats for a smaller naginata. There are long-handled swords and big knives.

Reasonable enough; just ignore the picture as a bit silly. I was trying to come up with something that wasn't "just another sword", since that's probably what all three pics really are (depending on the scale you want to assume).

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by CeeDub

The others are even more difficult without measurements. I'd say Thranduil's sword (named UC3042.jpg) is either a Smallsword or a Saber.

Here's the product page for it at United Cutlery (it's a movie replica, but no longer for online sale it appears). While no measurements are given (which is odd), there's a brief video that can be used to get some idea of scale. I think it falls into the shortsword/smallsword category.

Hadhafang is also at United Cutlery, and is listed as 38.125" overall, with a 30" blade, which puts it solidly in the broadsword/rapier/saber category. Lhang is MIA, but the High Elven Warrior Sword looks to be of the same type; it's listed as 49.75" overall, with a 24" blade. A brief bit of internet searching indicates those dimensions wouldn't be out of place for a nagamaki, so using naginata stats would be appropriate (note this was made official in GURPS Low-Tech, even if it slipped under the radar for MA).
EDIT: Actually, looking a bit closer, I think what that wiki has for Lhang actually is the United Cutlery High Elven Warrior Sword above, with the included display plaque.

Originally Posted by CeeDub

Right, I was going by the skill description in Basic, where Rapier is defined as a thrusting sword. I know that rapiers have a cutting edge, but they are described as having narrow blades, so we can be reasonably certain that Hadhafang is not one.

Personally, I feel that between Rapier, Smallsword, and Broadsword, Saber fills too small a niche to be worth points, especially with heavy sabres explicitly classed as broadswords, but that is neither here nor there.

I think the intent in Basic was for Rapier to be thrust-only, and Saber to be its swing-focused brother, but the latter was largely abandoned (likely with good reason) in GURPS Martial Arts. Personally, I feel Saber should just be folded into Rapier, but then I feel combat skills need a good deal of condensing anyway.

[Alden Loveshade]

Originally Posted by ravenfish

Of course, being elves, it is possible that their one-handed swords are intended to be wielded in a more nimble-footed stance, and are light enough to allow this, in which case Rapier would be the go-to skill.

I can see elves using rapiers/smallswords, although if one goes strictly historical, they were both I believe TL4 inventions. Of course a not strictly historical TL3 campaign could still thrust them in.

[ravenfish]

Originally Posted by Alden Loveshade

I can see elves using rapiers/smallswords, although if one goes strictly historical, they were both I believe TL4 inventions. Of course a not strictly historical TL3 campaign could still thrust them in.

Low Tech has the jian as a TL3 blade wield-able with either Rapier or Broadsword. I've been known to re-flavor it as the "elven thinblade" from A Certain Other Game (TM).

[Lameth]

Hello all. First thank you all for advice and info. Great tech info!

ok...haha... so where did we end on what "skill" and "sword type" these fall into?

1) https://www.lordoftheringswords.com/...il-swords.html

2) http://www.cbswords.com/lord-of-the-...ock-p-214.html

3) https://www.pinterest.com/pin/450782243923666464/


also I like the idea of making jian a elven type blade.. good idea!

[Alden Loveshade]

Originally Posted by ravenfish

Low Tech has the jian as a TL3 blade wield-able with either Rapier or Broadsword. I've been known to re-flavor it as the "elven thinblade" from A Certain Other Game (TM).

Good call on the jian. I wonder, though, if historically it would have been used with the Rapier skill, or if that skill was invented TL4 with the invention of the rapier. Again, unless it's a strictly historical game that's not necessarily even an issue, but I would be curious to know.