06-22-2020, 01:39 PM | #71 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: American Revolution
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My impression is that the common knowledge of the 'trench stalemate' tends to gloss over the fact that while costly, the massed infantry attacks were in many cases successful in taking the enemy lines, but were prevented from making a decisive impact by the depth of the defense.
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06-22-2020, 05:05 PM | #72 | |
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: West Virginia
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Re: American Revolution
Quote:
For trying to defuse a crisis, Franklin was hauled in front of the House of Lords (a body so famous at the time for being a pack of useless lackwits as to be beyond satire) and publically humiliated. Franklin swore revenge, he got it.
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06-23-2020, 07:24 AM | #73 | |
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Re: American Revolution
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06-23-2020, 07:58 AM | #74 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: American Revolution
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06-28-2020, 11:09 PM | #75 | |
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: American Revolution
Quote:
I said I thought a compromise outcome was possible, and I do, but I also think a time traveler trying to make it happen would need to make his intervention before the crisis really heated up. It was gradually building up for at least ten years before it turned violent, probably longer. Our time traveler would also have to intervene on both sides of the Atlantic.
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06-29-2020, 12:17 AM | #76 |
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Re: American Revolution
An interesting alternative would be if Britain had granted titles in the new world so that there were a few seats in Parliament for the colonies. As the population grows add a few seats in the House of Commons. The friction and crisis then comes when the number of seats for the colonies start to get big enough that they are a voting bloc that actually matters.
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06-29-2020, 07:34 AM | #77 | |
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: West Virginia
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Re: American Revolution
Quote:
Your solution would have worked, but neither the Kings nor the parliaments would have tolerated your solution until the early 20th century.
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06-29-2020, 08:32 AM | #78 |
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Re: American Revolution
One problem they still had to solve was reconciling each other's interests. As it was trouble on one side of the pond could spread without the other side's say-so. Problems in negotiations were similar: they were extremely angry at having to give back Louisberg after the War of the Austrian Succession (quite reasonably as it's possession by New France was a threat to security and the provincial forces had been to some work reducing it).
By way of contrast the main reason Britain got into the Seven Years War was originally disputes along the Western Frontiers.
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06-29-2020, 12:21 PM | #79 | |||
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: American Revolution
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Quote:
One of the underlying things driving the crisis was the ~3000 mile oceanic gap. It took months to travel from London to any of the Colonial capitols, or vice versa, in the middle 18C, and information moved at the speed of travel. The official British position was that Parliament was the legislature for the entire empire, and that all populations were 'virtually' represented there. The overseas territories saw this as nonsensical, there was no way their interests could be properly represented that way, plus the fact that Parliament was months away and could not be well-informed or reactive in reasonable time. Adding American representatives to the chambers in reasonable numbers might have addressed the first issue, but it would do nothing for the travel/communication time problem. To function viably, a world-wide empire in the 18C pretty much had to be very loosely articulated, with most of the decision-making handled locally. Which in turn meant conflicts of interest in a big way. One huge one was based in British economic policy of the time. The 'theory' behind mercantilist colonialism was that you established colonies, who provided raw materials to the newly-built industrial machine at home, who in turn provided finished products to the colonies in a closed system. National/tribal loyalty might have made that work if the colonies were only days away from the metropole, but with months of gap, the colonies inevitably started thinking of themselves as somewhat separate units, and wanted to trade where it as convenient, or establish their own industries, and the economics of the situation favored that. (It makes a lot more sense for a settler in New York Colony to send iron ore to a local smith to make nails than it does to send ore across the ocean to get a nail back across the ocean.) 'Defusing' the American Revolution would have probably required the creation of a 'federal' empire. Which was in fact proposed, but nobody was able to get it past the vested interests.
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06-29-2020, 03:41 PM | #80 |
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Re: American Revolution
Another way to defuse it is less political, and more technological (or rather, the effect of technology on politics): Go Steampunk and speed up the development of steam-powered ships. A Frenchman had a primitive steam car in 1769 (and it had probably the first automobile accident in 1771), and he wasn't the first person to try. Accelerating the timeline of steam power just a little starting in the 17th or early 18th century, or just having one specific thing invented sooner (e.g. a faster advance in materials science, thus stronger pressure vessels), could potentially allow for practical steamships in the 1760s. It's a stretch, but not a huge one, and the greater speed permitted would allow for decisions to be made with more up-to-date information, and reinforcements delivered much faster when needed (which reduces the probability of revolution because the colonists would know that as well).
The gunpowder engine is an amusing alternative, but has enough problems that it requires a bit of handwaving to make it believable, especially as they kind of need the gunpowder for the guns. Much less plausible than faster development of steamships. Another interesting option is from a timeline that I've forgotten the author or title of, that I think was on Alternatehistory.com: Issac Newton invents a radiotelegraph in the 17th century, allowing (once improvements are made) much faster communication between continents. It still means that the journey between Britain and the Colonies would take months, but they'd know what was going on when they left.
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