Assumptions about Elves

[Daigoro]

Did you settle on a set of assumptions, (E)?

Meanwhile, one variation that might be worthwhile exploring in depth is a settlement of seaside elves. Would they still be hunter-gatherer, or go for a more aquaculture angle?

[AlexanderHowl]

I think it depends on if they are amphibious or not. If they are amphibious (like Yrth sea elves), then they would like be hunter-gatherers. If they are not amphibious, they will likely be fishermen. Either group could practice a form of aquaculture that would encourage kelp growth, manage fishing stocks, domesticate more intelligent sea life, establish oyster beds, etc.

For example, oyster beds in temperate climates are massive producers of protein if they are properly managed, producing up to 1,500 bushels of oysters per acre per year. Around 7 lbs of meat are produced per bushel, so an acre of oysters produces 10,500 lbs of meat, enough to support 30 people. Of course, they need a proper environment, so it is not all good, but it is a highly productive way for people to eat from the sea.

[(E)]

As usual I got sidetracked by many things, my last surge in writing was largely down to injury which I have since recovered from, now I'm playing catch up at work as a result. I also noticed that I haven't done the crunch for the Orc agriculture yet.

Revised assumptions Version 1.1

- Elves are long lived or immortal, as a result they favour high quality or long-lasting products. Their point of view is less focused on a strictly annual or seasonal cycle.
- Elves have a greater understanding of genetic inheritance allowing more advanced selective breeding of plants and animals. Alternately they can use magic to obtain similar effects, this fits with the instances of elves having enhanced breeds of horses and the like.
- Elven technology diverged from the human norm, at TL 1 or 2. This suggests that they would not practice "Complete agriculture" but rather use a mix of domesticated species and wild sources to obtain the range of resources they need to sustain life
- Where possible/plausible Elven technology will be simple with higher quality, magic and/or higher skill making up the deficiency. This is likely to be expanded somewhat to include the design philosophy espoused by Lotus engineer Colin Chapman "Simplify, then add lightness".
- Elves are omnivorous with similar requirements to humans, however they are not as reliant on grain crops. Among other things their assumed proficiency with bows seems to indicate meat is eaten, possibly often.
- This particular group is semi-nomadic and agricultural production* is discrete/nonobvious, sustainable and relatively harmonious with nature. It may even devote effort to improving the quality of the surrounding environment. This may link in with magic below.
- An inherent level of magic has some effect. Probably increased yield for a given area or increased yield for a given amount of work. It may also be applied to less directly such as by applying something like a glamour to magic springs and food caches.
- The elves in this example are more typical "Gaming Fantasy" in regards to the level of magic they have access to. Sidhe type elves, who are that closely tied to magic that they themselves have to follow the "rules of magic" are another example.
- There may have been magical catastrophes in the past.
- Weigh in favour of Tolkien’s elves
-Skinny builds are indicative of a high energy/nutrition diet. large stomachs are loosely associated with lower quality diets.
- Temperate forest is the likely base location.
- Elves have some ephemeral social issues.
- Permaculture influences.
- Elven Hunter gathering is on the idyllic end of the spectrum, in this case.
- There is a lower level of occupational specialization. The average Elven hunter/farmer/gatherer is a capable combatant in their own right for example. Forming a competent or highly competent militia is fairly easy.

Maybe
-Elves have some domestic or nearly domesticated fantastic animals. Elven silk.
-Elves adapt to the environment they are in faster than evolution would seem to indicate. This may be because Elves not follow genetic inheritance. This might not end up relevant in the first example but may be useful when explaining other issues like subraces of elves that develop over a very few generations.

Things to include if an opportunity presents itself.
- They may be poorly adapted to recent changes, a suggestive if likely inaccurate example might be “Unemployed master mammoth hunter”
- Iron being avoided.
-Elven fertility is low, there are possibly issues involving reproduction.

Elven skill levels due to increased lifespan.
The argument for increasing skill levels beyond human norms is based around higher skill levels makes life easier. The argument against is that there is no rush to acquire high levels of skill and an individual's dedication to a single field of improvement is likely to fade after sufficient time has past.


Current musings
Magic is something that has some form of restriction around it's use. Perhaps magic isn't used directly on food production due to fears of catastrophe, but rather used indirectly for preservation and emergency production in the advent of a siege like situation. This links to Lembas.

High skill levels may be used for purposes like preparation of food that is otherwise toxic.


*I’m using this as a catchall term for things harvested from organic sources

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by (E)

- Elves are long lived or immortal, as a result they favour high quality or long-lasting products. Their point of view is less focused on a strictly annual or seasonal cycle.
- Perhaps magic isn't used directly on food production due to fears of catastrophe, but rather used indirectly for preservation and emergency production in the advent of a siege like situation. This links to Lembas.

Possible implication:
Perhaps they don't farm annual crops, but instead sit out dry spells or cyclic bad harvest seasons and wait for the peak of the cycle to come before they bother planting a particular crop. They then produce enough and preserve it well enough to wait through to the next peak, seven or some years later.

[(E)]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

Possible implication:
Perhaps they don't farm annual crops, but instead sit out dry spells or cyclic bad harvest seasons and wait for the peak of the cycle to come before they bother planting a particular crop. They then produce enough and preserve it well enough to wait through to the next peak, seven or some years later.

Hmmm, combine this with divination, ecological management, biochar/terra preta, slash and burn, short/medium term forestry rotation and semi nomadic lifestyle.

Which results in a fresh area of forest that has poor soil or a blight of some kind being cleared for useful timber. In the process biochar is produced and applied to the soil. Thanks to the divinations and observation of Long term cycles the area is likely to experience a fruitful season.
Then a crop is grown for the elves' use that has a beneficial effect on the trees that will be planted after harvest. This new crop of trees (and everything else that follows) will benefit from improved conditions. After the fresh trees have grown to sufficent size they are thinned* leaving a percentage of the new trees as the canopy as the area reverts to wilderness.

Would an assumption about elves being more tolerant to temperatures fit? If so elves would require less fuel from their environment.

*trees grown together produce cleaner timber as each tree is rushing upwards in competition with its neighbours.

[(E)]

Just did some rough estimates on the improvements in productivity.
No magic except for divination and labour saving.
The expected yield from the first Elven crop is something like 213% of the expected human crop. With maybe a 6% chance of a poor or failed crop.
For comparison the human crop was from a relatively well managed farm near a large city using slightly above average conditions. The human planted crop might yield better but it can't be expected to. In fact there is a 25% chance that the human's crop has a poor yield or fails.

The elves second crop on a given area which would be decades or centuries later would yield even better. 256% maybe.

With other assumptions the yield could be higher again.

[AlexanderHowl]

There is a basic problem with the assumption that elves would not use magic. If Elves are naturally magical, they would not have an issue with using magic, as they would no more associate it with negativity than they would their eyes, feet, or hands. They would not have famines because they could use agricultural magic, they would not care about droughts because they could bring rain and raise springs, etc. Of course, many of the assumption about elves do not make sense, as they should outperform humans by every measure.

One possible way that humans could outperform elves though is if elves were highly clannish and possessed centuries long feuds between their clans. If elves cared more about annihilating other elvish clans than they cared about humans expanding into former elvish territory, then humans could serve as mercenaries in feuds between elvish clans. In that case, elves would really not care if humans victimized other elves, as long as they did not belong to the same clan as the elf in question. Eventually, only one elvish clan would exist in an area and would find themselves outnumbered by the humans who they once hired as mercenaries.

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by (E)

The elves second crop on a given area which would be decades or centuries later would yield even better. 256% maybe.

Interesting, but not enough to let them go fallow for multi-year climatic cycles. Perhaps they have a lower population to support or they don't export a large part of their output.

[(E)]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

Interesting, but not enough to let them go fallow for multi-year climatic cycles. Perhaps they have a lower population to support or they don't export a large part of their output.

More can be added to the 256% yield bonus. If the following assumptions are taken into account.

- Knowledge of genetics and time to selectively breed crops.
- a method of increasing the nitrogen content in the soil
- positive microbes (from say a dusting of soil from a blond elf's garden)
- improved pest control through magic, empathy with nature or archery.
- improved societal organisation or helpful fantastic animals.

These get the yield up a lot higher 858%.
Adding magic rain or a relatively advanced form of irrigation and the number jumps to slightly above 1400%.

A less conservative estimate of the effects of divination would increase that further, 1700% maybe.
There are down stream efficiency increases as well, better food storage and so forth.

If magic was added to that then .....

[Andreas]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

There is a basic problem with the assumption that elves would not use magic. If Elves are naturally magical, they would not have an issue with using magic, as they would no more associate it with negativity than they would their eyes, feet, or hands. They would not have famines because they could use agricultural magic, they would not care about droughts because they could bring rain and raise springs, etc. Of course, many of the assumption about elves do not make sense, as they should outperform humans by every measure.

Using your eyes, feet, or hands does not have a random risk of summoning demons... That's just for the standard magic system. If you use RPM instead, then the danger would be far far higher. Your argument would make sense if they used a safe magic system, but that is usually not the case in GURPS.