Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > Roleplaying in General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-14-2020, 01:16 AM   #21
ak_aramis
 
ak_aramis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alsea, OR
Default Re: Bringing Inclusivity into TTRPGs

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerBW View Post
Next time I run a face-to-face game for strangers I'll have an X-card. I don't think my players will need to use it, but I'd rather go to the trouble and not need it than have a player made unhappy because it's not available.

Haven't yet found a good way to do this in a videoconference game though.
The X card itself has no need to exist if the GM does their task right. That includes making certain the players know they can bow out of a scene or fade it to black, and everyone's on board with the concept.

The physical card won't help, either, when you get the guy who plays mostly to push other players' buttons... because they're likely to use it to prevent natural consequences of their character actions. (I've had someone do just that.)

Communication need a willing pair, one to share, and one to listen and care.

It's better if the GM knows WHY someone's saying exclusion, line or veil crossed... One player wouldn't tell me why they left the table. And, not knowing why, stumbled back into the same turf the next session. If they had been willing to tell me why on session 10, they wouldn't have had a meltdown in session 12.

Hell, the whole gaming environment is better when people know what to avoid, and ban people who insist on going their... but not everyone is up to that.
ak_aramis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2020, 06:21 AM   #22
RogerBW
 
RogerBW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: near London, UK
Default Re: Bringing Inclusivity into TTRPGs

Quote:
Originally Posted by ak_aramis View Post
The X card itself has no need to exist if the GM does their task right.
Sure. And I am a wonderful GM who never misreads the table.

But when I'm playing with strangers they don't know that about me.
RogerBW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2020, 07:48 PM   #23
Agemegos
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Oz
Default Re: Bringing Inclusivity into TTRPGs

Quote:
Originally Posted by ak_aramis View Post
The X card itself has no need to exist if the GM does their task right.
I made a mistake once.
__________________
copyright Brett Evill
Agemegos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2020, 09:02 PM   #24
Andrew Hackard
Munchkin Line Editor
 
Andrew Hackard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Default Re: Bringing Inclusivity into TTRPGs

Quote:
Originally Posted by ak_aramis View Post
The X card itself has no need to exist if the GM does their task right.
X card is more of a tournament/convention tool, from what I have heard (and I don't play RPGs at conventions -- too busy working -- so this is very much second- or third-hand), but I think your standard is still overly broad. I have certainly been in games where things started getting out of hand and a feature saying "Wait, pause, we need to reset and discuss" would have been useful -- not because anyone was being intentionally obnoxious but because the heat of the moment was making things uncomfortable for one or more players. It wouldn't have to be the X card, but some similar "I need a break" tool to alert the GM and the other players would have been welcome.

GM's also make mistakes and sometimes they need the players to say "No, that's not something I am comfortable with," and that's not necessarily something you'll know until the heat of the moment arrives. Maybe the tool is the X card, maybe it's a siren, maybe the group is comfortable enough that the question "Can we hit pause and talk about this?" is plenty.

In any case, there's a lot of discussion about the X card online already, so I'd hate for a great conversation to get derailed by another such discussion here. Let's wind it down, if you have any final points, and recognize that some people will want to use it, others won't, and there's nothing inherently wrong with either position in isolation.
__________________
Andrew Hackard, Munchkin Line Editor
#PlayMunchkin on social media: Twitter || Facebook || Instagram || YouTube
Follow us on Kickstarter: Steve Jackson Games and Warehouse 23

Let people like what they like.
Andrew Hackard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2020, 01:01 PM   #25
Kalzazz
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Default Re: Bringing Inclusivity into TTRPGs

Having characters people can relate to in the media is pretty awesome

In the earlier version of DC Superhero Girls they had Batgirl's story as she was in IT and she wore glasses

Having a character who was in IT and wore glasses as a full blown superhero not just a supporting cast member? Way cool
Kalzazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2020, 06:19 PM   #26
ak_aramis
 
ak_aramis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alsea, OR
Default Re: Bringing Inclusivity into TTRPGs

I think I need to expand on what I meant, because it's clear from the responses none of you understand what I wrote the way I intended it.

The physical card should never be needed outside gaming with strangers. Which is not to say no objectionable material ever happens, but players should be comfortable enough to raise the objections without needing a rule nor worse, a physical token, to get a real problem dealt with. And the GM should be making that stance clear from the get go...

I'll also note that when I had problem players in the group, and tried the X-Card in virtual mode, The problem player was the one using it the most as a means of character risk reduction, not as a means of avoiding mental trauma so my experience with X-card as a rule is when it's needed most, it's also misused most by the person it would be intended to stop. I've seen that in convention play, too.

I'm a big fan of fading to black, but all that should take is a wave to get the GM's attention. Good GM's do that without a formal rule, and without need of a physical token.

I also have one particular problem with the X-card as typically implemented... typical implementations don't require explicating the problem. Which means the problem cannot be avoided in the future.

Excluding problem players is also a GM's duty... one I've failed on from time to time... but most recently, a local player was added to my group, and immediately peeved all three other players... I hated doing it, but I bounced him. I can't do that at the store, but at the store, I run things he doesn't want to play.
ak_aramis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2020, 08:31 PM   #27
DeadParrot
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Default Re: Bringing Inclusivity into TTRPGs

Be consistent on how to resolve things. I have played with GMs that resolve combat and most skill type situations with die rolls but when a Charisma type skill like diplomacy is attempted, the GM suddenly demands that the Player make a good real life diplomacy speech. Players with poor verbal skills are often penalized in such situations even if the Character's abilities are good.

Avoid the use of tightly scripted adventure paths. The few I have played in quickly felt like I was an actor in a play having to follow a predefined script instead of a character with a fair amount of free will.
DeadParrot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2020, 09:50 PM   #28
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Default Re: Bringing Inclusivity into TTRPGs

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadParrot View Post
Be consistent on how to resolve things. I have played with GMs that resolve combat and most skill type situations with die rolls but when a Charisma type skill like diplomacy is attempted, the GM suddenly demands that the Player make a good real life diplomacy speech. Players with poor verbal skills are often penalized in such situations even if the Character's abilities are good.
I have actually experienced the other side of this, decades ago, when I was invited to try a session of D&D with a new group. I chose to play a fighting man to keep things simple. So then we got into a combat scene, and when I said that my character attacked the foes, they wanted me to stand up and demonstrate the moves he made, because they all belonged to the Society for Creative Anachronism and were used to doing that sort of thing . . .

What I recommend in GURPS Social Engineering is that the GM should grant small bonuses to players who come up with entertaining things to say, because that contributes to making the game fun for the other players; but that they should be allowed simply to go for a reaction or Influence roll if they can't come up with dialogue, rather than being unable to play their character concept.
__________________
Bill Stoddard

A human being should know how to live fast, die young, and leave a beautiful corpse. Specialization is for insects.
whswhs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2020, 06:14 PM   #29
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Bringing Inclusivity into TTRPGs

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadParrot View Post
Players with poor verbal skills are often penalized in such situations even if the Character's abilities are good.
Similarly, it cheapens the purpose of such abilities when you let a player with good (at least for the group) verbal skills successfully use them to influence NPCs, even when his character is rather uncharismatic and doesn't know the first thing about diplomacy. And I say this as a player who has done exactly that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadParrot View Post
Avoid the use of tightly scripted adventure paths. The few I have played in quickly felt like I was an actor in a play having to follow a predefined script instead of a character with a fair amount of free will.
This gets even worse if you have powerful NPC's bouncing around, as the player doesn't just feel like an actor in a play, but an actor given a minor bit part in said play. And, in this case, I say this as someone who has made this error as GM - indeed, one of the most negative reviews I got was after my first time donning the GM hat (which, to be fair, I haven't done a lot). It was, quite simply, the player stating "I felt like I was Krillin."
__________________
GURPS Overhaul
Varyon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.