Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-28-2017, 07:23 PM   #1
Ailluminus
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Default Create Plant and Herb Lore

I can't find a quick answer to this simple question:

A character can use the Create Plant spell from GURPS Magic to, well, bring forth vegetation, with cost depending on whether it's grasses, bushes or trees. Can the mage dictate 'which' types of vegetation will come forth? For example, a mage seeking an herb to defeat an illness could use Create Plant to conjure up healing plants to brew into a tea or whatever?

Would the answer to that question change if my character had seeds to plant beforehand?

To describe this further, I'm hoping to take the Fungus College from Plant Magic to create a Fungimentalist for Dungeon Fantasy, and I'd love to use Create Fungus to conjure up specific mushrooms and molds to attack and defend against monsters, turning the weapons of the dungeon against itself.

Thanks for your thoughts.
Ailluminus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2017, 07:29 PM   #2
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: Create Plant and Herb Lore

Having a sample such as seeds usually helps in my games.
But for rare plants I would likely assess a skill penalty that the seeds could offset. But a really powerful/rare or valuable plant may have further restrictions, especially magical plants.
__________________
My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more!
My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
My GURPS Wiki entries
Refplace is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2017, 07:40 PM   #3
Phantasm
 
Phantasm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the road again...
Default Re: Create Plant and Herb Lore

Since common tree slime and mold are types of fungi, is it possible to use Create Fungus to bring the various types of Oozes from DF Monsters 2 into being?
__________________
"Life ... is an Oreo cookie." - J'onn J'onzz, 1991

"But mom, I don't wanna go back in the dungeon!"

The GURPS Marvel Universe Reboot Project A-G, H-R, and S-Z, and its not-a-wiki-really web adaptation.
Ranoc, a Muskets-and-Magery Renaissance Fantasy Setting
Phantasm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2017, 11:15 PM   #4
Ailluminus
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Default Re: Create Plant and Herb Lore

I can absolutely see a skill penalty.

As to Oozes, I think maybe. The amazing goo monsters in the Icky Goo book are a major inspiration for the Fungimentalist, whom will spend a lot of time as a Body of Slime, but that might be a high bar, equivalent to creating an Animal... which is not unattainable, but might requires a new spell.

But it seems like the consensus is that the mage chooses the vegetation created with Create Plant, is that right? Any dissenting voices?

Thanks.
Ailluminus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2017, 09:10 AM   #5
malloyd
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default Re: Create Plant and Herb Lore

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ailluminus View Post
But it seems like the consensus is that the mage chooses the vegetation created with Create Plant, is that right? Any dissenting voices?
All Create spells are somewhat problematic because of the lack of a good way to link spell energy (or other) cost to cash value. If you allow spell casters to create any plant, be prepared for them getting rich by creating valuable ones. In this case, where you are thinking about allowing plants with supernatural capabilities, you also need to be a little concerned about the spell being able to duplicate more expensive magical effects on the cheap. If you allow wizards to conjure any (kind of thing) you need to be careful about the powers you allow (kinds of things) to have anywhere else. Create Plant lets you pick anything means you need to be careful not have any Wishing Trees anywhere in the setting.

You'll sometimes see efforts to dodge some of that by requiring the spell to create generic magical versions of the whatever that are defined as having *zero* cash value, but it doesn't work all that well. I suspect the key thing to make creation spells work is to have an understanding with the *players* that they will not use them to do game breaking out of genre stuff like that even when the spell as written clearly ought to be capable of them.
__________________
--
MA Lloyd
malloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2017, 09:26 AM   #6
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Create Plant and Herb Lore

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ailluminus View Post
I can't find a quick answer to this simple question:

A character can use the Create Plant spell from GURPS Magic to, well, bring forth vegetation, with cost depending on whether it's grasses, bushes or trees. Can the mage dictate 'which' types of vegetation will come forth? For example, a mage seeking an herb to defeat an illness could use Create Plant to conjure up healing plants to brew into a tea or whatever?

.
I'm pretty sure the vegetation you get is generic.
David Johnston2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2017, 01:34 PM   #7
Flyndaran
Untagged
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
Default Re: Create Plant and Herb Lore

What does that even mean? You can't conjure up willow and its bark for a headache, because it has a medicinal use? Or all the highly toxic plants?
Or the very useful aloe?
Generic vegetation is like saying generic animal. Nearly every person in the room would likely picture something different.
__________________
Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check.
Flyndaran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2017, 01:59 PM   #8
ericthered
Hero of Democracy
 
ericthered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
Default Re: Create Plant and Herb Lore

Perhaps the plants are native to the area, and common. The caster has some control over if trees, bushes, flowers, or grass grows, but the magic is essentially using nearby plants and seeds as a template for what its creating. Rare plants are unlikely to show up. This method emphasizes harmony with nature.

That's just one solution, appropriate for certain kinds of casters.
__________________
Be helpful, not pedantic

Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog

Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!
ericthered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2017, 02:01 PM   #9
malloyd
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default Re: Create Plant and Herb Lore

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
What does that even mean? You can't conjure up willow and its bark for a headache, because it has a medicinal use? Or all the highly toxic plants?
Or the very useful aloe?.
Yes. No it doesn't make a lot of sense, but it is the usual dodge around making Create spells into "do anything with a good story" effects they otherwise inevitably become. They summon some sort of "Platonic ideal" whatever that has only the properties of an ideal thing, not of any specific example.

Some level of player buy in to that is probably required to make such spells usable, whether you implement that as summons such an imaginary generic, or you allow them to summon any specific thing they want with the unstated understanding that they won't actually *use* any properties that the generic thing wouldn't have (including the "has cash value" one). You need to remove most of the flexibility from any given Create or Summon spell if you don't want that one spell to turn into an entire alternate magic system. A brief look at the hoops Snatcher has to jump through to make it remotely balanced even at it's enormous point cost should be enough to convince yourself of that.
__________________
--
MA Lloyd
malloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2017, 02:13 PM   #10
Flyndaran
Untagged
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
Default Re: Create Plant and Herb Lore

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
Perhaps the plants are native to the area, and common. The caster has some control over if trees, bushes, flowers, or grass grows, but the magic is essentially using nearby plants and seeds as a template for what its creating. Rare plants are unlikely to show up. This method emphasizes harmony with nature.

That's just one solution, appropriate for certain kinds of casters.
Ooh, I think I could easily buy that in a game. Slightly touching on MtA and "paradox" or tao.
But native or merely extant could still matter. Invasive species are sometimes useful and sometimes scourges out-competing more valuable natives.
Here in Oregon, nutria increase in numbers while beavers decrease. Invasive blackberries choke out native plants.
__________________
Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check.
Flyndaran is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.