08-06-2012, 03:45 PM | #31 |
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
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Re: Feints dominating fights?
You know, Makke, you seem convinced that Feint is, in fact, a problem. Let's not argue about whether or not that's true. Let's take it for granted that it's "too good," and that people use it "too often," by your measure of too often.
How would we fix it? How would we introduce more variety into combat? Should we just remove Feint, or is there a way to keep its value in combat without making it so all-dominating (Perhaps, say, feints are worth less, but you can stack them up over time, or perhaps feints can go both ways and if your opponent sees through your feint, gains a bonus, making it riskier (which would make my evaluate strategy MUCH more valuable since it better ensures success))? I don't think this "Feints: Threat or Menace?" discussion is getting anywhere, so let's discuss the hypotheticals of how we might fix the problem. That will require outlining the problem, which might reveal some interesting things about the situation.
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My Blog: Mailanka's Musing. Currently Playing: Psi-Wars, a step-by-step exploration of building your own Space Opera setting, inspired by Star Wars. |
08-06-2012, 03:53 PM | #32 |
Join Date: Aug 2012
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Re: Feints dominating fights?
It definitely sounds like something I really need. I'm glad there's GURPS books that covers this. Branches out the combat step.
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08-06-2012, 04:04 PM | #33 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The ASS of the world, mainly Valencia, Spain (Europe)
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Re: Feints dominating fights?
Sorry Malanka if I ended up being a little too defensive of my opinions.
Feint is another piece of the puzzle. Is it an important piece? IMHO, it is. Is it too strong? maybe, but I have no idea on how to fix it without crippling it. Feints are not worth it unless you have something else to capitalize on the effect. As such, they go from worthless to awesome in the blink of an eye, depending on how much you can take advantage of their use. Perhaps forbidding the technique? that will curb feints without completely neutering them. However, it does not sit well by me. Maybe restricting the feint to skill+2, increasable to skill+4 via technique mastery? That can work. |
08-06-2012, 04:05 PM | #34 | |
Join Date: Aug 2012
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Re: Feints dominating fights?
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Hypotheticals, in a straight up fight between 2 players, a player can have weaker Feint but be better at _______? And _____ would benefit his battle against the other player how? |
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08-06-2012, 04:32 PM | #35 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Feints dominating fights?
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A radical and narrow but interesting option is to try to invalidate your opponent's preferred combat mode by grappling them. This is full of failure modes but if you do get a good grip on someone who specialized in fencing, you can proceed to unscrew their head and/or arms more or less at will. Could specialize in disarming instead. Dunno how well that stands up but it does bypass certain defenses really well. Armor, particularly. And there are weapons that give bonuses to disarming. Could drop the points on Dual Weapon Attack instead (in a cinematic game, at least) and plan on beating the opponent's second-best defense instead of their best.
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I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
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08-06-2012, 04:37 PM | #36 | |
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Athens of America
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Re: Feints dominating fights?
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Using that build my own self one of my favorite things to say in combat is "Defense X and Retreat" often not as much for the bonus, but for the hex of seperation. Then I will often Attack and then Step (Away)...The best defense against a Melee Attack in GURPS is to be too far away from the aggressor for him to attack in the first place. That being said if the tanking fighter type does manage to grapple the fencer the fencer is in trouble...
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My center is giving way, my right is in retreat; situation excellent. I shall attack.-Foch America is not perfect, but I will hold her hand until she gets well.-unk Tuskegee Airman |
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08-06-2012, 04:50 PM | #37 |
Join Date: Aug 2012
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Re: Feints dominating fights?
I like the disarming option a lot. I can use magic to whisper a spell, player will drop his readied weapon. Since the other player's feinting is rely on the skill points he invested in, let's say fencing, without his Stinger, he lose the advantage with his Feint.
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08-06-2012, 05:46 PM | #38 | |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Medford, MA
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Re: Feints dominating fights?
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2) You are looking for universals...and so much is individual and dependent on situations. For example, in that arena game my fighter was a dual weapon fencer. So the techniques I focused on were Dual Weapon Attack, Counterattack, and Disarm...much later I was finally able to get Flying Lunge. Other fighters focused on Feint and Rapid Striking. This one fighter focused on Hand Clap Parry and was really effective. We had a very, very scary Ogre with a Staff who would stack Spinning attack with Low Fighting. I can't say, Person A has Feint so Person B should do Y. If Person B is a mobile fencer that is one thing, if Person B is a Giant that is another. Here is my advice, if this is PvP, let your players fight. They will discover things on their own. They will get different variations on their own. Even the same build can end up doing different things. For example, Witchking's fencer would maneuver to stay out of range...my fencer had a different strategy. I'd stay at 1 hex away, and instead of retreating back, I'd Sideslip to their weapon side. Then for my attack I'd step to their read and attack them from behind...negating their Shield bonus. Feint is a way to reduce defenses, I reduced defenses through positioning, dual weapon attack, deceptive attack, and counterattacking. Other fighters did other things. I learned a lot from being in that game for the year or two it went on, I'd say that you should just let you players learn. Someone will come up with something that seems unbeatable, and then someone else will beat it. |
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08-06-2012, 05:52 PM | #39 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Feints dominating fights?
Quote:
Bill Stoddard |
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08-07-2012, 01:46 AM | #40 |
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Sheffield, UK
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Re: Feints dominating fights?
For my planned MMA campaign (starting as soon as Technical Grappling is out...) I have a whole bunch of ideas to stop the tedium of Feints. My game will have a fair amount of points variation between competitors but I will absolutely punish any player that does the same thing each fight. Other competitors can watch your video footage (good for negating style familiarity penalties and maybe even giving a +1 to defend against Combinations that you often use) and if they keep throwing the same Feint followed by a takedown attempt I will ensure that their greeting is a knee to the jaw.
I also like the idea of using a Shane Carwin-style "GLF" fighter whose constant offensive pressure means most players will either try to retreat or cover up. He might be gassed out at the end of round one but most fights won't last that long. I have many evils plans to make my players rise to the top as memorable as possible. In summary - Technical Grappling this week please! |
Tags |
combat rules, feints |
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