GURPS 4.5e

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

I'll bet there are more.

Exalted had a 2½ edition, by way of the second Scroll of Errata, which brought around rather significant changes.

[benz72]

For what it's worth, the theme I would pick is Regularize Everything. What I mean by that is make as many mechanics as possible use the same type of rules, progressions and references. e.g...

In combat you can be injured, fatigued or immobilized... have everything that interacts use an appropriate damage type (all the normal ones plus fatigue and control) and then propagate that throughout advantages, skills and equipment. Having a whip, wrestling, a freeze ray and an immobility spell all use the same targeting, defending, resistance and damage rules to pin an enemy's arm makes sense to me.

Have two (maybe three) standardized range scales in the base book and reference everything to them. (normal size/range/speed table and long distance modifiers). Things like long distance powers/spells and radios should use the same kinds of rules.

Reduce the number of skills and use familiarities and techniques to fill the specialization requirements. Why are Filch, Pickpocket and Slight of Hand each different skills and not techniques of one?

Decouple income, starting cash, signature gear and status. Make each point cost independent of the others but follow the same scale progression (probably the S/R/S scale).

Consolidate the equipment/weapon customization rules to include benefits derived from exotic materials, magic, skillful craftsmanship/quality, &c. Include some of the Low Tech crafting calculations as examples.

Regularize the Operate/Repair/Design triads for equipment and couple it into the gadget rules.

Rework the standard spell based magic system using the above regularized rules (and put in a page or two on how the mechanics were calculated so it is easy to self-generate more). If things like enchantment are going to be covered, make them a bit more generic (scale powerstone costs to worldbuilding, make staff possible but costly for metal or 9' lengths to allow for a more flexible concept of magical propriety).

Incorporate most of Social Engineering into the base rules.

In the PDF version at least, colocate or hyperlink all the skills/rules/tables that reference each other.

Include a url/QR that leads to a resources page with things like combat cards, a combat flowcharts and videos of worked examples (how to do combat, how to gadgeteer, how to X). A quick explanation in the book is important but an instructional video really helps users understand. If there is ever approved VTT collaboration this world be a good spot to link it. Also, this would be a good place to put the Caravan to Ein Aris (sp?) and the modern/space examples since it is something you are likely to only use once and not need in a reference book.

[TGLS]

Originally Posted by namada

Since the only game - ever - to release a ".5" edition of the game is D20 3.5, which was a minimalist update of the 3rd Edition - BUT still a new edition, if we're talking about GURPS 4.5E, we need to clarify, are we talking:

• GURPS 4E, Revised - as in, we need to keep page reference consistency, but can add pages & reuse deleted pages?
• GURPS 4.5 - something none other than WotC has ever done - so why bother talking about it, because it'll never happen?
• GURPS 5E - SJG is firm & adamant this will not happen soon, but that does not mean they're not taking notes on what we discuss here, so any idea is theoretically feasible?

In my book it would go like this:

• GURPS 4E, Revised - Some sections are added or removed. The page numbers all stay the same. There should be no lost rules. This may cause BIS pages.
• GURPS 4.5 - We lose page numbers as we redevelop the book. Things may change, like generic neutralize or leech being introduced in basic, and affliction may lose the ability to level it, but old books should still work.
• GURPS 5E - We lose page numbers and system compatibility. Old books require straight up conversion.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

Disagree. I don't like RPM, and I don't like the existing magic system. I prefer Magic as Powers.

While I do like RPM, I agree Magic as Powers is probably a better fit here - it just feels more "GURPSy" than the alternatives, at least to me. Sorcery is probably the best bet.

Originally Posted by benz72

For what it's worth, the theme I would pick is Regularize Everything. What I mean by that is make as many mechanics as possible use the same type of rules, progressions and references. e.g...

In combat you can be injured, fatigued or immobilized... have everything that interacts use an appropriate damage type (all the normal ones plus fatigue and control) and then propagate that throughout advantages, skills and equipment. Having a whip, wrestling, a freeze ray and an immobility spell all use the same targeting, defending, resistance and damage rules to pin an enemy's arm makes sense to me.

Have two (maybe three) standardized range scales in the base book and reference everything to them. (normal size/range/speed table and long distance modifiers). Things like long distance powers/spells and radios should use the same kinds of rules.

Reduce the number of skills and use familiarities and techniques to fill the specialization requirements. Why are Filch, Pickpocket and Slight of Hand each different skills and not techniques of one?

Decouple income, starting cash, signature gear and status. Make each point cost independent of the others but follow the same scale progression (probably the S/R/S scale).

Consolidate the equipment/weapon customization rules to include benefits derived from exotic materials, magic, skillful craftsmanship/quality, &c. Include some of the Low Tech crafting calculations as examples.

Regularize the Operate/Repair/Design triads for equipment and couple it into the gadget rules.

Rework the standard spell based magic system using the above regularized rules (and put in a page or two on how the mechanics were calculated so it is easy to self-generate more). If things like enchantment are going to be covered, make them a bit more generic (scale powerstone costs to worldbuilding, make staff possible but costly for metal or 9' lengths to allow for a more flexible concept of magical propriety).

Incorporate most of Social Engineering into the base rules.

In the PDF version at least, colocate or hyperlink all the skills/rules/tables that reference each other.

Include a url/QR that leads to a resources page with things like combat cards, a combat flowcharts and videos of worked examples (how to do combat, how to gadgeteer, how to X). A quick explanation in the book is important but an instructional video really helps users understand. If there is ever approved VTT collaboration this world be a good spot to link it. Also, this would be a good place to put the Caravan to Ein Aris (sp?) and the modern/space examples since it is something you are likely to only use once and not need in a reference book.

I feel I can agree with... pretty much all of this. On standardization, I'd also add taking anything that's currently "roll high" and replace it with "roll low," if feasible. Reaction Rolls would be against a character's "Reaction Stat" or similar (which would start at 10, modified by standard Reaction Modifiers), for example, with low rolls being good and high rolls being bad. The current system could be nearly matched if MoF 10+ is Disastrous, MoF 7-9 is Very Bad, MoF 4-6 is Bad, MoF 1-3 is Poor, MoS 0-2 is Neutral, MoS 3-5 is Good, MoS 6-8 is Very Good, and MoS 9+ is Excellent. I say "nearly" because a perfect match would have the Reaction Stat start at 11 (simply reversing the current table would have Neutral be 9-11), which doesn't quite fit for GURPS; there's also the issue the above table isn't terribly easy to remember, as it's a bit asymmetrical. I'd like it if damage were also somehow a "roll low" system, but I don't really see a good way to do this (I came up with a way, using set damage and then adjusting by SSR depending on the roll, but that would be a bit wonky in use and certainly not recommended as a core rule).

[johndallman]

Kromm's article "Ten for Ten" in Pyramid #3/70: Fourth Edition Festival, has a bunch of quite specific changes that all seem very sensible.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Varyon

WOn standardization, I'd also add taking anything that's currently "roll high" and replace it with "roll low," if feasible. Reaction Rolls would be against a character's "Reaction Stat" or similar (which would start at 10, modified by standard Reaction Modifiers), for example, with low rolls being good and high rolls being bad.

I don't like that at all. The fact that stat/skill rolls go for low, but reaction rolls go for high, helps draw a sharper line between them by making them mechanically different.

[AlexanderHowl]

I think a neat change in the rules would be to have the skill penalty inflicted upon PCs when they are targeted by NPCs with Influence Skills become universal (rather than having Influence Skills work differently on PCs and NPCs). It is actually quite amusing to see PCs flounder when they fail to resist a Sex Appeal attempt that succeeds by 15 or more, which is a quite easy to build using the default rules.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I don't like that at all. The fact that stat/skill rolls go for low, but reaction rolls go for high, helps draw a sharper line between them by making them mechanically different.

Why do they need a line between them at all?

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

Why do they need a line between them at all?

It's a fair question. Reaction rolls can be considered to be effect rolls in a way, like damage, which would suggest they're thematically "roll high," so long as "you always roll high on effect rolls, you always roll low on skill/trait tests" was made 100% uniform.

If we treat a reaction roll as a skill/trait test - more like a 'passive' influence skill roll - they should be treated as such with a roll-low method.

But either is valid; one just must decide and apply.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I don't like that at all. The fact that stat/skill rolls go for low, but reaction rolls go for high, helps draw a sharper line between them by making them mechanically different.

I would probably convert reaction rolls to normal rolls with all the normal mechanics (and move the extreme reactions to criticals).