Dungeon Fantasy Players and GMs: What Tips You Would Give to a New Player?

[Stripe]

Greetings!

To people who actually play or have played GURPS Dungeon Fantasy with other players and a game master, and to GM's who have real, actual game-play experience running sessions of DF, what are a few tips you would give new players and GM's?

Assume the person is familiar with the fantasy* genre, The World's Most Popular RPG, and also knows at least the basics of GURPS, but has never played or GM'ed Dungeon Fantasy. This isn't advice for people who are new to table-top role-playing games or GURPS.

Assume only the Basic Set, Magic, Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers, Dungeon Fantasy 2: Dungeons, and Dungeon Fantasy 3: The Next Level are being used. Assume no other material is in-play.

Some people would rather fill out a questionnaire. For those, here it is:


Advice to players:

1. What is the single most important piece of advice you would give to a new Dungeon Fantasy player?

2. What are 3-5 tips you would give to a player who is familiar with fantasy* role play but inexperienced with the town-and-down dungeon crawl style of play?

3. For players who will assume a front-line warrior character template (e.g., Knight), what tips you would give to help them play efficiently and effectively?

4. For players who will assume a character using a caster template (e.g., Wizard), what tips you would give to help them play efficiently and effectively?

5. For players who will assume a template focused on ranged combat (e.g., Scout), what tips you would give to help them play efficiently and effectively?


Advice to game masters:

1. What is the single most important piece of advice you would give to an experienced GURPS GM switching from running fantasy* games focused mainly on role playing to running Dungeon Fantasy hack-and-slash games?

2. What are some differences between fantasy* games and Dungeon Fantasy that you would highlight and advise a GM how to handle?

3. What are some other important pieces of advice you would give an experienced GURPS GM about running DF games?


Thanks to everyone with Dungeon Fantasy game play experience for their advice!


* Fantasy is a fiction genre set in an imaginary universe, often but not always without any locations, events, or people from the real world. Most fantasy uses magic or other supernatural elements as a main plot element, theme, or setting. Magic and magical creatures are common in many of these imaginary worlds. Fantasy is generally distinguished from the genres of science fiction and horror by the expectation that it steers clear of scientific and macabre themes, respectively, though there is a great deal of overlap among the three, all of which are subgenres of speculative fiction.

[sir_pudding]

Don't just shout "I attack!" and roll the dice. Maneuver choice, movement, positioning, hit location, and attack options are all really important!

I had one player who never seemed to grasp this (even after months of playing), it was frustrating for her, for me, and for the other players.

Do figure out what your common attacks are in advance, and write them on your sheet with all the modifiers. The Scout's player did this and she was extremely fast and effective every turn.

[JMason]

1. What is the single most important piece of advice you would give to a new Dungeon Fantasy player?

Have fun. ;-)

Other bits of advice: Combat in GURPS is very small increments. Don't let that stop you from performing a long action. Tell your GM what you want to do, then work out what happens each turn. Go for that crazy plan!


2. What are 3-5 tips you would give to a player who is familiar with fantasy* role play but inexperienced with the town-and-down dungeon crawl style of play?

Have fun! Seriously this time. The game is about killing an looting. Don't take things too seriously... just go with the flow.


3. For players who will assume a front-line warrior character template (e.g., Knight), what tips you would give to help them play efficiently and effectively?

Sword and Board with good Blocking and the best armor you can get. Or light armor and GREAT weapon skill for parry. Or a stupid amount of HP. Pick one.


4. For players who will assume a character using a caster template (e.g., Wizard), what tips you would give to help them play efficiently and effectively?

Missile spells are slow, can cost a lot of energy, and might miss. If you go that route stick with "explosive" versions, power them all the way up, then toss them on the ground behind the enemy... but watch out for blasting your allies.

Otherwise stick with area spells. What's better than a fire ball that targets one guy and might miss? A room full of fire than burns everyone in it.

If you insist on direct damage... go with Dehydrate!


5. For players who will assume a template focused on ranged combat (e.g., Scout), what tips you would give to help them play efficiently and effectively?

It can get boring doing one thing over and over... so give some thought to your backup combat skill.

Bodkin Arrows for DR reduction. Arm ST to get better damage.

Have magic arrows, they can be cheap and give some variety.


Advice to game masters:

1. What is the single most important piece of advice you would give to an experienced GURPS GM switching from running fantasy* games focused mainly on role playing to running Dungeon Fantasy hack-and-slash games?

If you are anything like me, the biggest problem is making things too complicated. Keep it simple and fun.


2. What are some differences between fantasy* games and Dungeon Fantasy that you would highlight and advise a GM how to handle?

DF is about killing and looting... so have interesting things to kill... and interesting rewards.


3. What are some other important pieces of advice you would give an experienced GURPS GM about running DF games?

Have fun ;-)

[DanHoward]

Have fun. We here are constantly arguing about different rules but don't worry about them too much during the game. If you aren't sure about something then roll the dice and make something up; you can check the rules before the next session. Have fun.

[Culture20]

In that other game, called shots are useless except against a bullette. In GURPS, always call your shots. My group still talks about two instances where big end bosses were killed by one person in one second (one with one arrow through the eyeslit while he was monologuing).

[chandley]

For melee fighters, move is more important that it might at first seem. Move 4 should be considered a minimum.
Fast-draw (weapon) and a lanyard can save a lot of time in combat. Biggest hit against axe/mace weapons is the lack of fast-draw.

Luck. It isnt mandatory, but it can be such a clutch advantage it seems like it is mandatory.

For ranged characters: fancy arrows are relatively cheap and can make a huge difference. Meteoric, fine, balanced arrows sharpened with a dwarven whetstone are great for special occasions and bosses. +1 to hit/+2 damage can be a huge bonus to non-specialist ranged users too.

Access to multiple damage types is important for everyone. Cut is generally useful, but impale/pi have the vitals as an important option vs living, and crushing in the hands of someone strong can crowd control with knockback.

A decent melee skill on a Wizard can pay big dividends. Thrusting a deathtouch charged staff over the shoulders of your front line fighters can be an FP friendly way to add a lot of damage to a fight... but only if you can hit. Use a spear for an impaling option (and cut, with tip slash) that can fall back on a staffs better parry when needed.

[evileeyore]

I recommend reading these blogposts from Peter Dell'Orto:

What non-combat skills do they bring to the DF table? (Cleric, Druid, Scout)
What non-combat skills do they bring to the DF table? (Swashbuckler, Martial Artist)
What non-combat skills do they bring to the DF table? (Knight, Wizard, Barbarian)

How to Be a Helpful GURPS Player During Combat
Being A Helpful GURPS Player in Combat, Part II
GURPS 101: Avoiding Combat Analysis-Paralysis in GURPS

GURPS 101: Patching Holes (Death, Fear, and more)
GURPS 101: Patching Holes (Poison, Disease, Influence Rolls)
GURPS 101: Patching Holes - Don't Over-Patch

Negotiating with Monsters: Common PC Errors
Negotiating with Monsters in DF
GM Mistakes Negotiating as Monsters

Sneaking in a Dungeon, Part I
Sneaking in a Dungeon, Part II
Sneaking in a Dungeon - Part III - Equipment and Tactics

Peter also has other good posts explaining many GURPS character topics (like HP, FP, IQ, ST, HT, etc):
GURPS 101


And finally to really "level up" peruse Douglas Cole's page on GURPS Melee Academy articles (by Doug, Peter, and others):
Gaming Ballistic - Melee Academy

[Nymdok]

Originally Posted by Stripe

Advice to players:

1. What is the single most important piece of advice you would give to a new Dungeon Fantasy player?

Have Fun! This genre can tell Parody as well as epic level story telling. You'll find the sweet spot between.

Originally Posted by Stripe

2. What are 3-5 tips you would give to a player who is familiar with fantasy* role play but inexperienced with the town-and-down dungeon crawl style of play?

Drop Dice. Kill ogre. Nosh Pretzle. Tell a fun story, move the plot forward and keep enough money for a Raise dead close to hand.

Originally Posted by Stripe

3. For players who will assume a front-line warrior character template (e.g., Knight), what tips you would give to help them play efficiently and effectively?

Deceptive Attack, Deceptive Attack, Deceptive Attack.

Also, in spite of the listed 'in play' works above, ask your GM if the Mystic Knight template is right for you. (Hint: It is).

Originally Posted by Stripe

Advice to game masters:

1. What is the single most important piece of advice you would give to an experienced GURPS GM switching from running fantasy* games focused mainly on role playing to running Dungeon Fantasy hack-and-slash games?

YOu can tell epic level stories with the genre and you should try to do just that.

Originally Posted by Stripe

3. What are some other important pieces of advice you would give an experienced GURPS GM about running DF games?

DF is fairly combat-centric, as these things go, and GURPS combat is a great game entire unto itself, with each template in DF having the capacity to contribute in their own way.

That said, not every room has a monster in it, some have feindish traps, perplexing riddles and other skullduggery. Devise your own traps. Write your own riddles. Create your own Puzzles. You've spent your entire GMing life comming up with interesting stuff, and lets be honest, some of its been out of place in your other games for not being 'realistic' or 'plausible' but those rules in the DF space are relaxed if not outright discarded. GO FREAKING NUTS.

If Captain America's shield can defy the laws of Physics in a comic book, then you can have a deisel belching, clockwork dragon or a 2 foot tall Minotaur that shattters adventuring Shins as a matter of course. You can have a room where lighting a candle causes gravity to reverse itself (inside the room).

Use this DF time in this DF space to stretch your imagination as far as it will go. I think you'll find it a refreshing change of pace from reality :)

ALSO! Dont hesitate to shift the penalties for low HP to lower parts of the spectrum, even in the negative, because cowardly Pcs simply will not do in a DF game. Giving them a slightly bigger envelope to work in for HP helped my players be bold...which is what we all enjoyed anyway.

Nymdok

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Nymdok

Also, in spite of the listed 'in play' works above, ask your GM if the Mystic Knight template is right for you. (Hint: It is).

My experience, from both ends, is that this is annoying. If the GM says that something isn't available you probably should just respect that.

[Blood Legend]

Advice for Players

1) The last 6 players I had kept looking at their advantages for stuff they could do so I guess the very first piece of advice I'd give is 'You are your skills. Look there for solutions.'

2) If you have any experience camping or climbing, channel your inner (outer?) explorer and buuuuuuy the gearrrrrrrr. If you don't have to drop a single item to get into zero encumbrance, my dungeon -will- kill you.

3) Don't worry about your dodge, your shield is 30 lbs for an excellent reason.

4) If you're not going to be versatile please don't play a wizard. We have plenty of characters that are here 'just' to do damage. And by the gods take a healing spell if it allows you.

5) Targeted Attack Vitals and the skills that let you find those vitals. Even at its best, using range is slow, make those shots count. Don't layer all the DPS on one creature unless there's only one creature. Flip side of the coin; you don't have to kill everything you shoot. Target a knee every once in a while. Your weapon is nearly silent, don't neglect stealth. Shooting occupied enemies from side and back hexes can significantly ruin their day. There are a variety of arrow heads, armor piercing doesn't do a whole lot against zombies, diversify.


Advice to game masters:

1) Dungeon Fantasy implies a different focus but don't neglect your strong points. Still, players are usually only going to want Information, Aid or Stuff from NPCs, so if you want to make them memorable, build NPCs as ridiculous (but serious) caricatures with at least one motive that your players (and you) can keep track of. Mix up cliches, you'll get some interesting stuff; The Devout Merchant, the Greedy Priest, the Power Hungry Urchin, the Starving Mayor. Your game is composed entirely of the people and monsters that they meet so get wild with enemies too. Don't worry too much about why the creature is there, you can have rank and file undead but every 3rd monster is a vampiric blood skeleton or a swamp thing that explodes caustic acid. Your players aren't going to give TOO much thought why there's a harpoon wielding merman in the desert. Most of the time they'll grin, shrug and shout "Sure why not."

2) Players will murder the **** out of any problem that gets too complicated. If you want to have non-violent challenges to give them (or yourself) a break, those challenges need to have one obvious but moderately difficult solution. Accept any short cut the players come up with. I've been very blessed lately that my players understand consequences but Dungeon Fantasy tends to have less consequences, so you tend to get thicker headed players. I've watched very good players devolve pretty badly.

3. If you see a critical space missing in the party, just fill it with an NPC. Your players are going to want to focus on the characters they picked, don't try to coax the ranger to pick up a few religious spells. You can make suggestions sure, but don't force it. Also this one seems to be Dungeon Fantasy specific, don't let gods and demons speak directly to the players. They have acolytes, popes, kings avatars, and other liaisons who can pass a message along. They're busy and you want to have something to escalate too later.