[MH] RPM Enchantment + Defining Rituals

[Adelus]

I was curious about a few things; I'm using MH more as a resource than as the setting as a whole, namely the Ritual Path Magic system.

I was wondering how one could hypothetically do permanent, non-charm enchantment. I was thinking, since part of its structure seems to be from the verb/noun system, of prepping enchanted items with Create Magic, and then afterwards following up with the effect, using costs as outlined in Thaumatology, pg. 187. I wanted to ponder a simple example like a flaming sword.

This is where I start hitting some snags.

1) Would enchantment count as making the Create Magic effect Greater, even with the multiplied cost already factored in?
2) For the case of making a temporary charmed weapon to, say, become incendiary, what effects are at play? Create Energy seems a given, but Lesser or Greater? And what kind of effect would come from Path of Matter: Strengthen, because it is augmenting the item, even though it isn't necessarily changing the matter? Transform, as it is a significant alteration for the sword to start spewing flames? And would this effect then be Greater or Lesser? Basically, if one is making a conditional ritual or charm in order to surround or produce a magical effect on a physical item, what Path of Matter effect is to be considered?
3) How would ritual effects be handled, namely damage? It definitely seems it was not built with ST-based, melee ideas in mind.

And this last question is unrelated to the enchanting, and more to do with a problem ritual idea:

3) How would you model a ritual to open locks, without outright breaking them? Would it just be Lesser Control Matter, with a roll against the path skill as if making a lockpick roll?

[Lamech]

I was wondering how one could hypothetically do permanent, non-charm enchantment. I was thinking, since part of its structure seems to be from the verb/noun system, of prepping enchanted items with Create Magic, and then afterwards following up with the effect, using costs as outlined in Thaumatology, pg. 187. I wanted to ponder a simple example like a flaming sword.

I would seriously question doing this as you could mess things up. I think it could work though. I would if you want permanent effects simply say permanent is a duration modifier with a cost of "x" where x is high enough that either a) it will won't end during any foreseeable time frame in the campaign or b) long enough that it will be easy as pie for the mage to maintain. Basically your saying "I assume the mage maintains it during downtime" and changing the flavor.
Then for an enchanted item you just add a lesser control magic (or create magic) effect and have the target being whoever is wearing the magic item. Of course that would eat up charm slot I think... I suppose you could ignore charm slots... Finally the control/create magic would be lesser, and the other effect would depend on if it would normally be lesser or greater.

Now here is where issues start up. One enforce the stacking rules for spell effects. If someone has a lesser strength body ring, and a lesser strengthen body hairpin only one does anything. Or if they have a ring of ST+2 and a hair pin of ST+2 only one does anything. Two it will be screwy with economics. Time won't be a huge concern for crafters. If they can gather up the energy to make a enchanted item they can make another one the next day; in effect only quick and dirty enchantments will exist. Or if the enchanters seriously are concerned about exploding very few will be making enchantments, but a risk taker could churn out a pile of magic toys. Or charm slots could be the limit for enchanters.

2) For the case of making a temporary charmed weapon to, say, become incendiary, what effects are at play? Create Energy seems a given, but Lesser or Greater? And what kind of effect would come from Path of Matter: Strengthen, because it is augmenting the item, even though it isn't necessarily changing the matter? Transform, as it is a significant alteration for the sword to start spewing flames? And would this effect then be Greater or Lesser? Basically, if one is making a conditional ritual or charm in order to surround or produce a magical effect on a physical item, what Path of Matter effect is to be considered?

The flaming weapon is greater path of create energy I would say. Transform wouldn't make sense unless the blade actually became flame. I wouldn't say it need a path of matter effect. Maybe strengthen or recover if you worry about the energy effect wrecking the blade.

3) How would you model a ritual to open locks, without outright breaking them? Would it just be Lesser Control Matter, with a roll against the path skill as if making a lockpick roll?

I would say greater control matter (your making a lock slide open thats obvious magic). But I wouldn't require the lockpicking roll. You could argue lesser control matter lets you stick a lockpick in and get a bonus. (Or substitute for actual equipment if your lockpick isn't actually any good.) But that would be a GM balance call IMO.

[tg_ambro]

I asked this question a while ago, and this is the answer RPK gave. Here's the rest of the thread. Hope that helps!

[Adelus]

Ah, thanks all. I guess I missed the bit about conditional rituals being dormant until activated and thus hanging indefinitely, and the bit about the cost jumping down once you hit the 1-year mark.

As for the enchantments, I was thinking of only allowing S&S enchanting to stop people from accumulating quite vast amounts for Q&D enchants, though I am rethinking that idea entirely now.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I can't find a bit about adding enhancements to damaging spells. I know duration as written in RPM is not compatible with damaging spells, but I was wondering how you would add other modifiers for non-malediction attacks like Homing, Overhead, Rate of Fire, etc. Would the +1 energy per 5% rule as per afflictions in RPM work? And that said, how would one lower the damage as given, since the lowest presented for a non-explosive, blatant physical assault is 3d? Partial dice doesn't seem like it would work.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Adelus

On a somewhat unrelated note, I can't find a bit about adding enhancements to damaging spells.

Much of that can be simulated by adding the right spell effects. For example, a homing fireball could use Create Energy plus Sense Mind to home in. That's the most appropriate in-genre way to handle it.

Would the +1 energy per 5% rule as per afflictions in RPM work?

Those rules aren't for adding enhancements. They're specifically for adding affliction effects -- and the % values are just an easy way to convert. I wouldn't treat them as a generic "way to add enhancements to whatever you're doing"; RPM assumes you'll be using spell effects to modify things as needed.

And that said, how would one lower the damage as given, since the lowest presented for a non-explosive, blatant physical assault is 3d? Partial dice doesn't seem like it would work.

It's +0 energy for up to 3d. If you only want to do 1d-2, then just say as much when casting the spell. You definitely don't get a discount on the energy cost, though; modifiers never reduce energy cost (except for Trappings).

[Adelus]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Much of that can be simulated by adding the right spell effects. For example, a homing fireball could use Create Energy plus Sense Mind to home in. That's the most appropriate in-genre way to handle it.

Ah, makes excellent sense. I suppose manual guidance and effects like Jet, cone, and overhead might be produced by control energy effects (in which case, how do you add multiple such effects and determine cost)?

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Those rules aren't for adding enhancements. They're specifically for adding affliction effects -- and the % values are just an easy way to convert. I wouldn't treat them as a generic "way to add enhancements to whatever you're doing"; RPM assumes you'll be using spell effects to modify things as needed.


It's +0 energy for up to 3d. If you only want to do 1d-2, then just say as much when casting the spell. You definitely don't get a discount on the energy cost, though; modifiers never reduce energy cost (except for Trappings).

Ok, so smaller quantities are just at your own discretion.

That said, how then would one model a cyclic damage effect like the Malaise ritual, or some other magical pestilence?

EDIT: Ah, rereading Malaise, I noticed that they just apply cyclic by figuring the total damage over time as the damage needed for the spell. Though I'm still interested in finding out how to applying multiple effects through other spell effects; Is there a difference in using Control Energy to make a fireball homing, a fireball with overhead, or a fireball with both? If these kinds of enhancements are limited to 1 per spell, why? And if not, shouldn't it necessarily cost more if you add multiple levels of armor divisor to a tight-beam burning attack as opposed to just one, or multiple effects? Maybe if not necessarily an increase in energy, a penalty to the final casting roll for every X% of enhancements added since you might require more concentration and willpower to shape the spell? Likewise, maybe a bonus for negative enhancements?