Customizing the Revelations Cycle

[Archangel Beth]

Oh, very clever -- "trying to do good, but there were communication breakdowns" is nifty.

[Jason]

Next month, I will be jumping into the second Revelations Cycle adventure I plan to run, "Fall of the Malakim." I've been kicking around some ideas about how to go about this, but before I get to my big list for input, I have a couple questions I thought I'd pose to you all out there:

First: What exactly is causing Maximillian all that dissonance? The book implies it's caused by constantly "suffering an evil to live," but the full text of that oath typically includes "when it is my choice to do so," and he's been given explicit orders to do just that. Am I missing something there? That said, Max also has an oath to never allow insults to Heaven's honor to go unchallenged (or something to that effect), which seems to be how he gains some dissonance right in the opening vignette. If that's enough for you, that's enough for me.

And second: I'm much more interested in somehow working Dark Malakim into the ending of this adventure than in actually using the ending as written (as the whole "robot double" thing seems a bit out of place for the kind of campaign I run). The text on that page implies that this content was cut when the story was headed in another direction; any theories or insight into what was so problematic about the Dark Malakite? Personally, I much prefer an ending with a crazed Malakite destroying everything in LA before being whisked away by Kobal. You still get the scenario in which the apocalypse is kind of a scam (what with a Demon Prince secretly and forcibly hiding an angel in Hell), but you also get a more logical and less convoluted climax following Maximillian's years of torment, no? Anyway, if anybody has suggestions on how to make that work, feel free to offer ’em up. Thanks in advance.

[Archangel Beth]

From Memory: The whole Dark Malakim thing was kind of a casualty of the Line Editor hiatus. See, the Angelic Player's Guide had basically gone to press by the time that I was given the job. And it included... "Dark" Malakim. Therefore, Edelstein's material had to be cut because it conflicted with prior work; SJ didn't want to have two "dark Malakim" mechanics floating around, and didn't want to errata the APG, like, immediately -- and I don't really recall which treatment he preferred.

So if you want to use Edelstein's stuff, feel free. It's arguably more in sync with the adventure than the material in the APG. (I. So. Want. To. Have. The. APG. Rewritten...)

As for Max's dissonance... Yeah, the "if it's your choice" thing is kind of fuzzy. I did my best to give him oaths that would constantly be coming into conflict with the demons, which didn't have that "if it's my choice" codicil on them. Indeed, the honor-of-Heaven one might be coming into conflict with the whole "you're under orders to endure, idjit" concept. Enduring = not doing the whole Wrath Of God thing on everything around = not challenging insults to Heaven = dissonance. If Max'd been a bit more creative, he'd possibly have come up with ways, right off the bat, to challenge insults without violence... But Max is Stone, not Creation.

One thing you're probably going to need to do is come up with why Max's Archangel is doing this. There's some stuff in FotM, as I recall, but it may be more ambiguous than your players like, depending. (It's been a while and I'm on antibiotics for sinusitis right now, so I'm a little fuzzy on whether some of the better clarifications worked their way into the text.)

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

From Memory: The whole Dark Malakim thing was kind of a casualty of the Line Editor hiatus. See, the Angelic Player's Guide had basically gone to press by the time that I was given the job. And it included... "Dark" Malakim. Therefore, Edelstein's material had to be cut because it conflicted with prior work; SJ didn't want to have two "dark Malakim" mechanics floating around, and didn't want to errata the APG, like, immediately -- and I don't really recall which treatment he preferred.

Ah, thanks for the background. I assume you're talking about the "Degeneration of Malakim" section in the APG; not seeing anything specific to the word "Dark" in the main Malakim section. What I'm reading here leaves open the possibility of weirder effects when discord goes unchecked, as all it says is that a truly dissonant Malakite is implausible. So yeah, crazy Malakite murder spree, here I come!

As for Max's dissonance... Yeah, the "if it's your choice" thing is kind of fuzzy. I did my best to give him oaths that would constantly be coming into conflict with the demons, which didn't have that "if it's my choice" codicil on them. Indeed, the honor-of-Heaven one might be coming into conflict with the whole "you're under orders to endure, idjit" concept. Enduring = not doing the whole Wrath Of God thing on everything around = not challenging insults to Heaven = dissonance. If Max'd been a bit more creative, he'd possibly have come up with ways, right off the bat, to challenge insults without violence... But Max is Stone, not Creation.

Sounds good to me. I notice that his write-up doesn't specifically include the "not being captured by forces of Hell" oath, but assuming that's technically included too, there's probably also an argument to be made that this one is occasionally violated too.

One thing you're probably going to need to do is come up with why Max's Archangel is doing this. There's some stuff in FotM, as I recall, but it may be more ambiguous than your players like, depending. (It's been a while and I'm on antibiotics for sinusitis right now, so I'm a little fuzzy on whether some of the better clarifications worked their way into the text.)

This puzzled me at first, but I'm actually pretty comfortable with this now. After all, if Malphas is going to keep around a loose end like Mira because it's in the nature of his Word, I could see David forcing a fellow Malakite to "tough it out" for a few years because it fits with the nature his own Word. And as Stone is patient, fifteen years of enduring wouldn't necessarily seem like a long time to someone like David...

[Archangel Beth]

Originally Posted by Jason

Ah, thanks for the background. I assume you're talking about the "Degeneration of Malakim" section in the APG; [...]

Yeah, that'd be the one. Having two routes to Crazy Malakite Mess wasn't what SJ wanted for the line, but at least there's a loophole if you want it. *grin* Have fun with your Crazy Malakite!

Sounds good to me. I notice that his write-up doesn't specifically include the "not being captured by forces of Hell" oath,

Check the errata. That's where that oath got off to. O:>

This puzzled me at first, but I'm actually pretty comfortable with this now. [...] fifteen years of enduring wouldn't necessarily seem like a long time to someone like David...

Ayup! And it also may depend on What David Wants Max To Learn. It's not impossible that David wants Max to ask for help. Stone is also enduring together, in groups. Max is, arguably, displaying unreasonable pride by insisting on enduring alone. (It may be that David is over-estimating Max's intelligence, but... David is patient!)

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

Ayup! And it also may depend on What David Wants Max To Learn. It's not impossible that David wants Max to ask for help. Stone is also enduring together, in groups. Max is, arguably, displaying unreasonable pride by insisting on enduring alone. (It may be that David is over-estimating Max's intelligence, but... David is patient!)

... Huh. Well, it's a good thing David never stuck me in LA, because as perfectly logical as that is, it never occurred to me. Good call.

Oh, I can just picture now the look on his face when his Servitor massacres nearly every celestial in the city... (I figure Kobal and Malphas are secretly taking care of the rest for the sake of thoroughness, of course.)

[Archangel Beth]

Kobal can probably picture David's expression, too. *beth does the Evil GM's Small Smile #4*

[Jason]

File under "I hope this isn't a plot hole":

According to the timeline in "Fall of the Malakim," the real Maximilian is removed from the city while Scurvy and Malphas are busy actually killing all "children of Heaven" in town (or they're busy killing each other). After Malphas leaves with Mira's last Force, the First Trumpet blows. Then the adventure starts, with the PCs arriving to the city to find robo-Maximilian and Scurvy in Maximilian's vessel. This should imply to the PCs that Maximilian was there all along.

But if Maximilian never left the city, therefore leaving one "child of Heaven" in LA, then why did the First Trumpet go off at all?

We the readers/GMs know the answer -- that is, Maximilian DID leave the city -- but shouldn't the Superiors be suspicious of this? The only answer I've been able to come up with is that the Demon Prince conspirators correctly guessed the specific interpretation of "children of Heaven" as including both angels and Heaven-born Fallen, while the Archangels are laboring under the misapprehension that a "child of Heaven" was lost when Maximilian Fell. (And even if this wasn't what was intended, you could probably rejigger the plot a bit to make "children of Heaven" only apply to angels, and it would still work either way. The demon casualties wouldn't be necessary to the plot, but would help provide a cover against it looking like Hell simply clearing out all the local angels.)

[Archangel Beth]

I suppose they thought that he wandered out of the area deemed "city" for long enough for the Trump, and then wandered back in, in time for the PCs to find him. (In all truth, this may've been/may be a genuine plot hole. Derek, as near as I can tell from everything of his in IN, tended to run his games in a very fast, roll-and-shout, "cinematic rule of cool" model, which means that minor details like that would probably be overlooked by anyone he was gaming with.)

To better-plug the plot hole, I'd advise having the characters find Mad Max (or his Evil Twin, or Robot Double) somewhere outside the city limits. The characters and/or Superiors can assume that he finished nuking every celestial/demon he could find and went looking for more.

Perhaps they find him (or, rather, "him") chasing down someone, via Sticky Disturbance? E.g., "The Symphony is doing the Thrash Rock thing -- there's so much of it, don't even bother rolling -- and you can tell that it's loudest over there, and indeed, it's moving at about 75mph thataway. Going to try to intercept?"

[tHEhERETIC]

Reading this thread with much interest--will reread the cycle when my time frees up a little more. But I'm contemplating a retaking of L.A. plot for PbP, set in the variant of L.A. I used in Mile Higher Club. That is, The Final Trumpet didn't happen. So I have to decide where in that cycle my plot turned left.

L.A. is populated in theory by demons, but in practice by renegades and demons who pay lip-service to their Princes. It's ruled by a Lilim who claims to be free and probably believes it...but who probably isn't. She and Ryuki--the divine sorcerer--are in a seven-year Cold War situation. The PC's would tip this balance.

Soo...any first thoughts on where to turn left? I own Rev 1, 4, and 5 at the moment.