11-25-2013, 09:31 AM | #1321 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
Quote:
So if you say that form is not real, I understand that to mean that you think electrons are real, but that their charge is not real, their mass is not real, their half-integral spin is not real, and so on. Bill Stoddard |
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11-25-2013, 09:40 AM | #1322 |
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: OK
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
Yes, that wouldn't make any conceptual sense.
__________________
"For the rays, to speak properly, are not colored. In them there is nothing else than a certain power and disposition to stir up a sensation of this or that color." —Isaac Newton, Optics My blog. |
11-25-2013, 10:05 AM | #1323 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
Isn't a localized ultra hard vacuum technically existing without being any particular thing?
As far as modern physics can ascertain, that is.
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Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check. |
11-25-2013, 10:11 AM | #1324 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
If you attempt to violate the laws of nature, you will fail. Is that not enforcement? If you violate mathematical laws, your results will be wrong. Are they not laws (perhaps not).
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11-25-2013, 10:22 AM | #1325 | |
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: OK
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
Quote:
And the same thing is going on with the identity of these computer emulations of people. Someone on the other end of a text chat with one of these emulations might experience the thing as being the dead person, but it's not actually the dead person, in the same way that my experience of yellow isn't a certain wavelength of light. If light is a wavelength, then my monitor can't ever be accurately described as yellow, and if I say it is yellow, then I'm lying. I don't think that makes the least bit of sense. What's going on there is that when I say, "My monitor is yellow," I'm saying something synonymous with, "When I look at my monitor, I perceive it as yellow." Colors are either our perception or they're a certain wavelength of light. If you choose to go with the wavelength definition, then you're rejecting the normal use of the term and substituting it with your own.
__________________
"For the rays, to speak properly, are not colored. In them there is nothing else than a certain power and disposition to stir up a sensation of this or that color." —Isaac Newton, Optics My blog. |
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11-25-2013, 10:23 AM | #1326 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
Quote:
I haven't objected to the phrase "law" for a conceptual structure within the human mind, which is what mathematical laws are. The natural sciences are a bunch of conceptual structures that (we hope) correspond to the actual natures of things, and thus describe their behavior. Natural laws form part of those conceptual structures, and describe how things behave. But they don't MAKE things behave as they do. There is no conceptual structure out there in physical reality—no natural lawgiver, no natural law enforcement, no natural legislator. There is just things-as-they-are. The idea of natural law is a metaphor. I haven't objected to using it; I only object to taking it too literally. Bill Stoddard |
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11-25-2013, 10:27 AM | #1327 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
Quote:
A vacuum is not an entity. That's the point of Aristotelian materialism: It says that all entities are physical, not that all existents are physical. Bill Stoddard |
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11-25-2013, 10:44 AM | #1328 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
I'm not sure why you're stuck on the problem of agency. Yes, there is no agent that is enforcing those laws, but the fact remains, if you try to break them, you will fail.
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11-25-2013, 10:49 AM | #1329 |
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: OK
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
What does that even mean, to try to break them? To attempt to act against your nature? That doesn't make sense. That has to be a contradiction of some kind. To do something I can't, by definition, do.
__________________
"For the rays, to speak properly, are not colored. In them there is nothing else than a certain power and disposition to stir up a sensation of this or that color." —Isaac Newton, Optics My blog. |
11-25-2013, 10:58 AM | #1330 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
If I try to make an object behave in a manner other than the way physics says that object should behave, I will fail.
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