Question about FP recovery, with and without regeneration

[Kirby]

Folks:

As I understand it, natural FP (and ER) recovery works at a flat rate and not a percentage of your maximum FP, unlike HP recovery.

(E.g.: If I have 20 HP, I heal 2 HP per recovery period instead of 1. But if I have 20 FP, I still heal only 1 FP per recovery period.)

Is this understanding correct?

Second, if I buy Regeneration for use on FP (or ER), does each recovery period give me a percentage of my maximum FP/ER or a flat amount?

(E.g.: If I have 20 ER and Regeneration (Instant; heals ER only), do I get back 1 ER per second or two?)

Thanks,

--K

[Bruno]

In both cases, I believe the basic rule is flat rate, never scaled. Similarly, FP regained from Absorbing DR, or from the Recover Energy spell doesn't scale.

I suspect this is a Game Balance issue - FP are normally your "Cool Stuff" reserve, with some incidental normal physical endurance stuff in there.

If I ran a campaign where ALL Cool Stuff comes out of an Energy Reserve, or a hypothetical Third Expendable Point Pool attribute, and regular FP are just for the normal physical endurance stuff, then I'd probably allow proportional FP recovery (and very few people would be interested in Regeneration: FP over Regeneration: ER I suspect). My ER or Third Expendable Point Pool thingy would NOT recover scaled, for the same game balance reason.

[cccwebs]

This was discussed back in 2005, and the general consensus was that the increased recovery rate for high levels of HP corried over to DR and FP recovery.

[Kirby]

That (edit: Bruno's response, not CCCWebs') was my intuition, both regarding the rule and its rationale.

The context regards a high-end super with a large ER; 10%-to-100%-per-turn ER recovery makes Costs ER limitations pretty laughable, and for a 1500-point super it'd be silly not to spend a few points on ER regeneration.

Is it sad that the presence of a forum like this makes me feel licit in just consulting other people's intuitions instead of spending a while working out the implications rigorously? I mean, I know other people will already have done that, and I'll get an answer in minutes.

Thanks!

--K

Edited P.S.: CCCWebs, I somehow thought it was an explicit rule that DR recovery was 10% of your max per recovery period. Was I just making that assumption and thinking it was canonical?

[cccwebs]

Edited P.S.: CCCWebs, I somehow thought it was an explicit rule that DR recovery was 10% of your max per recovery period. Was I just making that assumption and thinking it was canonical?

Per Kromm (again, back in 2005), DR recovery is considered the same as HP recovery. It recovers at the same rate and is modified in the same manner as HP.

[naloth]

FWIW, we've scaled DR and HP recovery but not Fatigue.

[cccwebs]

Originally Posted by naloth

FWIW, we've scaled DR and HP recovery but not Fatigue.

I would willingly debate not scaling FP. If you scale HP recovery, then what is to stop me from taking High Pain Threshold, Regeneration (anything Fast and over), lots of additional HP (costs less than Extra Fatigue), then modifying all my abilities with the Costs HP limitation (double the value of Costs FP)? GM fiat? If the GM is allowing Extra Fatigue (over the recommended value) or Energy Reserve then it could be argued that they shouldn't disallow the above combination either. This way I can get the benefit of enhanced recovery for my HP, and it's actually cheaper than using Regeneration and Extra Fatigue/Energy Reserve.

On second thought, I'll just allow for FP recovery to be modified by high base FP (same for Energy Reserve) just like HP and DR recovery.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by Kirby

Folks:

As I understand it, natural FP (and ER) recovery works at a flat rate and not a percentage of your maximum FP, unlike HP recovery.

(E.g.: If I have 20 HP, I heal 2 HP per recovery period instead of 1. But if I have 20 FP, I still heal only 1 FP per recovery period.)

Is this understanding correct?

Originally Posted by Kromm

On 17 Jan 2006 at 17:54, Craig Roth wrote:

<< Do characters with a lot of Fatigue gain it back on the same principle as characters with more Hit Points? That is, given a character with 20 HP will heal 2 hits in the amount of time another character with 10 HP (same healing rate) would heal 1, does the same apply to Fatigue? >>

No. FP are an important limit on ability use, and faster recovery would be unbalancing. Also, while DX, IQ, and HT are "intrinsic" in that they don't scale up to astronomical levels on the basis of size, ST is more "extrinsic," and *does* scale up. Ergo, high levels of HP, based on ST, don't behave like high levels of FP, based on HT. While proportional HP recovery is necessary to handle large characters, there's no similarly convincing argument for proportional FP recovery.

SP.

From here.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by cccwebs

I would willingly debate not scaling FP.

Sure, why not?

Lots of HP and DR (ADR) usually represent big things. Generally speaking a dragon is going to shrug off an arrow easier than a man. If the dragon takes a similar % damage, we would expect him to heal in a similar % time to the man. We wouldn't expect the dragon to take x10 times as long to heal because it has x10 the HP. (or x4 with an elephant.)

That analogy doesn't really hold true with fatigue. Large critters don't necessarily have (or need) lots of fatigue. In fact giving them lots of fatigue would allow them to perform super stunts and scaling it up would allow them to perform stunts more often. A fighter with 20 fatigue can already do twice as much as a normal person. Should he also recover twice as fast because he can do twice as much? There's already a separate advantage called Very Fit for just that ability. Do you want that to quadruple or more his recovery?

Then you get into ER and Powerstones. They naturally scale up to large (superhuman) levels. Decreasing time between use greatly powers them up. Surely if that was the intent it would be somewhere in the rules like there is for HP.

EDIT: Ninja'ed!

[cccwebs]

That analogy doesn't really hold true with fatigue. Large critters don't necessarily have (or need) lots of fatigue. In fact giving them lots of fatigue would allow them to perform super stunts and scaling it up would allow them to perform stunts more often. A fighter with 20 fatigue can already do twice as much as a normal person. Should he also recover twice as fast because he can do twice as much? There's already a separate advantage called Very Fit for just that ability. Do you want that to quadruple or more his recovery?

But why shouldn't the analogy hold true with fatigue. Yes, it's accepted that among all the attributes, Strength (and thus Hit Points) is the most "scaleable". Large creatures are significantly stronger and more durable than us puny humans. But why should an imaginary creature with massive amounts of Fatigue Points or energy be penalized while the imaginary creature with massive amounts of Hit Points isn't? Because Hit Points aren't usually used to power abilities? Well I think I demonstated earlier in this thread a situation where not only can high levels of HP allow for powering up abilities, but can do so for an overall less cost. Add in the penalty applied to a creature with large amounts of FP (ie, a creature with 50 FP suffers from penalties once it reaches 17 FP and at a normal recovery rate would be at those penalties for at least 170 minutes if it was reduced to 0 FP, whereas the creature with 10 FP would only have to wait for 40 minutes to be rid of the penalties). Of course it could be argued that creatures with higher levels of FP don't spend more per use than creatures with lower levels of FP. Well, the same is true with HP; creatures with high HP don't take additional damage per hit as compared to creatures with less HP, but creatures with higher HP do heal at the same proportional rate as those with lower HP. Let's not get into the discussion of Fit and Very Fit, because then you have to start comparing Rapid Healing and Very Rapid Healing or the various Injury Tolerances.