Criticism for my Plot Point System? Please.

[RedMattis]

I've created a Fate Points system for my current campaign. Basically in the campaign I've got two types of characters. High Points "Specialists" and Lower Point "Heroes". (Compare to White-hats and Champions in the Buffy RPG)
Specialists get more Character Points per meeting, while Heroes have more Fate Points to spend during the session.

Heroes are 150 points, specialists 250 points initially, and if they role-play equally well the ratio will remain unchanged.

Heroes get 5 Fate Points per meeting, of these one per meeting can be hoarded letting heroes save up any amount of Fate Points.
Specialists get 1 fate point per meeting, and can have a max of 2

Character Points can be spent Fate Points.
These things can be done with the Fate Points:

See post 32: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=48011&page=4
Fate Point Spending

Heroic Feats

Heroic Effort (1)
Make one dice roll at +10. This must be decided before you roll the dice

Lucky Shot (1, Cumulative)
Improve the result of a roll by +5. If the result gets a margin of success above at 10 or above by this method it is considered a critical success. Critical Failures are also removed

Fury (3 to 2)
At the cost of 3 plot points the character can release his or her fury and get the following bonuses for the fight/scene:
+3 to all attack rolls
+2 to damage, or +1 per dice whichever is better
+1 to defense rolls
This ability can only be used after some form of provocation, and must be role-played. Very ‘good’ provocation decreases the cost to 2 plot points.
Rename Heroic Fury, Tranquil Fury, or anything else befitting the character.

Aegis of the Plot

Flesh wound (1)
Reduce the injury from one incident to ¼ of its original value (rounded up). This must be done before death or unconscious rolls.

Not Quite Dead (1)
At the cost of a plot point a player can fudge a death roll and stabilize the character, avoiding death. This does not protect against further injury though, and if several death rolls are failed the player may have to spend several plot points.
If the character still dies the plot points spent here counts for “Back from the Grave” should the player want so

Deus ex Machina (3 to 6)
At the point the character fails an unconsciousness roll the player may spend 3 Plot Points to guarantee that the character will survive until he or she has returned to consciousness. Beyond that it offers no protection.
Another alternative is for a conscious character to spend six Plot Points to guarantee that he or she will not be permanently killed at any point during the rest of the gaming session. Beyond not dying it offers no protection.

Back from the Grave (5 or more)
By spending five plot points the character can return from the dead in some form. This can take any form, and might take time in game depending on what form. Exactly what kind of creature the character returns as is up to the Game Master. At 5 points the GM will likely be quite sadistic concerning how exactly this works out. At 10 points the GM will be more generous, and make the ride a bit less bumpy. At 15 Plot Points the GM will explain alternatives and allow the Player to pick.
Back from the Grave costs twice as much if bought via Character Points

Plots Twists

Serendipity (1 or more)
The player can request one lucky occurrence of moderately improbably event, such as a taxi being waiting just outside the building he or she escaped from, the guard at the nightclub being an old associate, or your friends coming to save you in the nick of time.
Very unlikely or downright ridiculous cases of serendipity cost more points.

Gizmo (1 or more)
The character has some useful, but possibly very unlikely object which just happens to be what is needed to solve the task at hand. This Plot Twist allows a character who just minutes ago went through a metal detector to pull a gun, or a character to just have happened to collect some blood of that Thing Man-Was-Not-Meant-To-Know when they last encountered it.
The more unlikely the “gizmo”, the more costly, but in general this Plot Twist is more powerful than the Gizmo Advantage.

Obviously inspired by the Buffy RPG ;)

[vicky_molokh]

Basically nice, but IMO it's a play on a very old idea, layd out on this forum many times before.

[RedMattis]

Originally Posted by Molokh

Basically nice, but IMO it's a play on a very old idea, layd out on this forum many times before.

Doesn't mean that it is a bad idea though, just old.
I'm hoping to get some comments on the Fate Point System, to find out if I screwed up or left something too useful/useless.

[Randover]

Nope its fine. The problem might be with players. Last few sessions of the other game I have attended did show me that players like that they don't have any choice at all.

I just wonder how does plot points interact with magic...

[RedMattis]

Originally Posted by Randover

Nope its fine. The problem might be with players. Last few sessions of the other game I have attended did show me that players like that they don't have any choice at all.

That they couldn't affect the plot in a meta-way you mean?

I just wonder how does plot points interact with magic...

Uh, sorry, I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean there?

[vicky_molokh]

I suggest compating the price of Extra Life to Back From the Grave.

[ravenfish]

I see no problem with 'em. I like the principle, and you seem to have thought things out.

Do Heroic Effort and Lucky Shot work on defense rolls? If so, I might foresee Flesh Wound being underused, since one could usually just bump up defenses so that one defends.

My only major issue is with a "per game session" point allotment. If each session has a similar number of challenges, all very well, but otherwise.... long game sessions become generally harder for the PCs, as the players must ration their points to a greater degree. Don't most GURPS meta-level advantages function "every X hours or minutes"? Just a thought, I'm no expert in game design, and I think what you have here looks workable as stands.

EDIT: Regarding Molokh's point on Extra life: Extra life guarantees that that you come back unchanged, whereas, if I read aright, Back From The Grave guarantees some transition issues. Of course, even the 15 point version would be a -40% limitation, if Fate Points and Character points scale one to one (perhaps a bad assumption), which seems a bit steep a discount.

[Randover]

Originally Posted by RedMattis

That they couldn't affect the plot in a meta-way you mean?



Uh, sorry, I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean there?

Yes, some players simply can't thing both in meta-way and in-role (or in character).

Magic already has some other rules regarding succes and failures and there critical levels (For example luck is forbidden with magic). Plus in thaumatology you can use optional rule to power spell with CP.

So how does Plot points work with magic?

I personaly as a mage-player would protest a little because other characters have gained limited cinemmatic ability and that makes my magic less special (Imbalaced).

[nik1979]

This system, despite its age, it is very useful.

one criticism I would place is that the players need not roll anymore. Spending and Rolling, doesn't make it so Fate-ish when a critical failure will take away the fate-based powers of these points away from the PCs. and If a +10 will result to a near certain success, just make it so instead of having a roll as a middle man.

I suggest you have rules in place that reduce the amount of rolls, this system would be doubly useful.


I've used a similar system and opted for a simplified solution, as I have ascribed in my criticism. In my suggestion, I give my latest amendments because I use average damage (modified by margin of success), use a mook system*, and allow players to automatically "save" vs going down or dying instantly with the points.

*where as I don't roll HT for mooks and depending on the challenge I want to present, let them automatically succeed or fail.

[demonsbane]

Originally Posted by RedMattis

(...) Character Points can be spent Fate Points.
These things can be done with the Fate Points:

Fate Point Spending

Heroic Feats

Aegis of the Plot

Plots Twists

Originally Posted by Randover

(...) So how does Plot points work with magic?

I personaly as a mage-player would protest a little because other characters have gained limited cinemmatic ability and that makes my magic less special (Imbalaced).

I'm searching for a good "Fate Point" system for GURPS, too. Seeing this, RedMattis, I would ask not only for Magic -as Randover points-, but about many more non-combat features of the game and/or plot.

Excepting Plot Twists, I would like to see how this work with things as Reaction Rolls, Fatigue points, Fright or Awe Checks, Will increases-decreases in particular situations... and whatever not directly related with combat nor with the physical capabilities of the characters (stuff already well covered under Heroic Feats and Aegis of the Plot).

Putting it in another way, Plots Twists section seems a bit scarce in content for a role playing game featuring not only combat situations. Don't you think?

I'm aware the "combat" aspect -along with its rules- of a role playing game system is the easier to quantify, but still I think this deserves a thought.