Magery pointless? - Page 14

Polaris · 06-26-2009, 03:34 PM

Guys,

Sorry to jump in late, but I suprisingly (perhaps for those that know me) have to agree with Dr. Kromm on this one. In fact this exploit (and let's not mince words, IQ! is an exploit) and ones like it are precisely what I have and enforce a DA limit in all my games.

I am becoming more and more sympathetic to the notion of fixing Per/Will as independant stats at base value 10 as well given the sort of IQ! abuse I've seen (and admittedly done myself).

All that said, it's important to remember that the DA limit in 4E is an optional rule which means that if normal human limits don't apply (and they often don't) players are still free to use the IQ! exploit.

Honestly, for most purposes IQ! is perhaps one of the cheapest stats in the game. It's vastly better than most talents (including magery) and of these talents only magery is within shouting distance (because of the new in 4E overcharge rules and spell restrictions for magery). The negative points are also in effect "free" since especially for will rolls, will scores above a certain level (14 to 16) are largely pointless.

I find that even with the DA limits in place per the rules in the Basic Set (remember again they are an optional rule), I find IQ scores routinely 16, 18 or even higher because it's just that good a deal.....and it allows free "filler" for your DA limit. [The hard core optimizers assume they will take all the points permitted to them and then find the combination that impacts them the least.....and that's always been true.]

-Polaris

pawsplay · 06-26-2009, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

Johnny one-spells can be perfectly viable characters. This is a extreme case and just terrible character creation.

Actually, I tend to suspect they are more realistic than generalists. In fact, if you look at fantasy literature, most wizards are known for casting only a handful of spells. When Vance's character warns he has the Excellent Prismatic Spray, he isn't just whistling dixie; simply mastering that one spell is a formidable resource.

Cybren · 06-26-2009, 04:50 PM

Especially since inevitably the PCs still only have a few main tools that they will try to use for every situation. I could certainly buy a novice or even talented fire mage generally falling back on fireball. At 150 starting points as the books recommend, a mage doesn't have too many points to get willy nilly with his spell list, so after some basics like recover energy, what else will a fire mage take? Everything BUT fireball?

After play for a while, the mage might become known for his aptitude for or fondness of fireball or whatever else spell they like.

06-26-2009, 03:34 PM	#131
Polaris Join Date: Feb 2005	Re: Magery pointless? Guys, Sorry to jump in late, but I suprisingly (perhaps for those that know me) have to agree with Dr. Kromm on this one. In fact this exploit (and let's not mince words, IQ! is an exploit) and ones like it are precisely what I have and enforce a DA limit in all my games. I am becoming more and more sympathetic to the notion of fixing Per/Will as independant stats at base value 10 as well given the sort of IQ! abuse I've seen (and admittedly done myself). All that said, it's important to remember that the DA limit in 4E is an optional rule which means that if normal human limits don't apply (and they often don't) players are still free to use the IQ! exploit. Honestly, for most purposes IQ! is perhaps one of the cheapest stats in the game. It's vastly better than most talents (including magery) and of these talents only magery is within shouting distance (because of the new in 4E overcharge rules and spell restrictions for magery). The negative points are also in effect "free" since especially for will rolls, will scores above a certain level (14 to 16) are largely pointless. I find that even with the DA limits in place per the rules in the Basic Set (remember again they are an optional rule), I find IQ scores routinely 16, 18 or even higher because it's just that good a deal.....and it allows free "filler" for your DA limit. [The hard core optimizers assume they will take all the points permitted to them and then find the combination that impacts them the least.....and that's always been true.] -Polaris

06-26-2009, 04:50 PM	#133
Cybren Join Date: Mar 2006	Re: Magery pointless? Especially since inevitably the PCs still only have a few main tools that they will try to use for every situation. I could certainly buy a novice or even talented fire mage generally falling back on fireball. At 150 starting points as the books recommend, a mage doesn't have too many points to get willy nilly with his spell list, so after some basics like recover energy, what else will a fire mage take? Everything BUT fireball? After play for a while, the mage might become known for his aptitude for or fondness of fireball or whatever else spell they like.