[DF] Replacing a dead/retired character, what CP build total?

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Kromm

I give bonus points to veterans who cover for apprentices and help them out.

Yeah, ditto. Players working together is a good thing. I don't run antagonistic games for two reasons: 1) my players despise them and won't play and 2) I don't like them either. Of course the exception to this might be Paranoia or Amber (which are special cases)...'cause what's a little backstabbing between friends?

Originally Posted by Kromm

I guess that if you believe that everything ought to scale – and try to run adventures in one night rather than playing weekly for years and letting adventures take months – then yes, you would have a different experience. My proposed scheme wouldn't be very good there.

Again, this is my experience as well. My players don't care about the game engine for the most part, but most of them like GURPS because I do and because of its flexibility - they play with me because of how I tell a story that they can interact with. I've been told by dozens of players over the years that playing in a game ran by me is like being in a interactive TV show or movie. They expect multiple plot lines and twists - most of them crave it. :-)

[A Ladder]

So far I'm a new Gurps GM and all my players (except one) are new to roleplaying in general.

I'm playing DF at the moment and getting my feet wet with how players interact and how to scale challenges.

So far I've just had people start at 250 pts. If they want to make a new character they start at the beginning: 250. However, if you keep the same character from session to session his wealth is going to be a lot more than starting a new guy every time.

I've had two PC deaths and each person just remade a character for next session.

So far my players have all made multiple characters and have switched between them quite a bit. (except for one). So the point difference isn't that noticeable. And the one who's stayed the same character has been spending points on Speak with Plants, brewing skills/magic, so his combat/social prowess isn't sky high over everyone else's.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Some games have an inherent imbalance built in by design. Ars Magica mages versus "Companionis" and "Grogs" is a classic example, as is Buffy the Vampire Slayer. You can have fun with imbalanced CP totals.

That's a very misleading statement about Ars Magica. It's not as if the intent is that some players shall have the very powerful magi characters, and other players shall have companion characters, and other players again shall have the very weak and mundanized grog characters.

Also, from what I've read, the two character classes in the Buffy RPG may in fact be balanced. One class has vast intrinsic competence, as represented in GURPS by high attributes, a bunch of advantages, and lots of skills, while the other class has low intrinsic competence, but compensates for this with having lots of luck-like traits, such as Luck, Serendipity, Gizmo (or even a miraculous survival-shaped Extra Life).

It should in fact be possible to reproduce that effect in GURPS, and doing it even better if desired, because you wouldn't have to have two discrete classes. Instead you can let each player decide how many CP they want to spend on luck-type traits, and how many on intrinsic competence, thereby positioning themselves on a spectrum going from Lucky to Competent.

[The Benj]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

That's a very misleading statement about Ars Magica. It's not as if the intent is that some players shall have the very powerful magi characters, and other players shall have companion characters, and other players again shall have the very weak and mundanized grog characters.

Which isn't what Anaraxes said.

Also, from what I've read, the two character classes in the Buffy RPG may in fact be balanced. One class has vast intrinsic competence, as represented in GURPS by high attributes, a bunch of advantages, and lots of skills, while the other class has low intrinsic competence, but compensates for this with having lots of luck-like traits, such as Luck, Serendipity, Gizmo (or even a miraculous survival-shaped Extra Life).

It should in fact be possible to reproduce that effect in GURPS, and doing it even better if desired, because you wouldn't have to have two discrete classes. Instead you can let each player decide how many CP they want to spend on luck-type traits, and how many on intrinsic competence, thereby positioning themselves on a spectrum going from Lucky to Competent.

It's more like White Hats are built on fewer points, but have a discount on spending points for success and so on.

[lachimba]

I think it's fine if the PCs end up on different point totals.

It's a staple of the traditional fiction. 'The Hobbit', 'Lord of the Rings' etc

It`s a staple of online gaming.

Even a 25 point spear carrier has utility.

GURPS point totals also don't necessarily translate into effectiveness, even in DF. A 250 point knight will probably be more combat efficient than the 300 point scholar. Add items into the equation and a 250 point knight can be more effective than a 300 point one.

Staying alive to climb back up may be an issue.

[muranternet]

I rather like the accelerated CP idea for fantasy. It's sort of a throwback to 1e AD&D: you die, enter play as a level 1 guy who hides in the back of the party, and will probably die again. But if you don't, you get a lot more relative experience since you're being twinked by a high level party.

[ericthered]

Accelerated cp doesn't just seem to be in genre in fantasy, it's a lot easier to make progress when you start learning something.

And all fiction is rife with characters who start low and quickly get better.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Accelerated cp doesn't just seem to be in genre in fantasy, it's a lot easier to make progress when you start learning something.

Yes, it is. One of the more interesting techniques for learning is meditation to achieve a "beginner's mind" (shoshin) specifically to take advantage of this fact. GURPS does a decent job of modeling this effect for skills (1-2-4). In Dungeon Fantasy, where everything on your template – even physical advantages – is learned as a "skill" as you improve, it would be fair and reasonable to let beginners earn two to four times as many points as veterans until they, too, are veterans. Here, "veterans" means the pack of advanced PCs.

Originally Posted by ericthered

And all fiction is rife with characters who start low and quickly get better.

Not to mention that one of the perks of traveling with heroes is that you learn from example and eventually outdo them in some area. The student or the reluctant peasant hero coming to the rescue of the master or the great hero is a classic fantasy trope.

[Nosforontu]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Not to mention that one of the perks of traveling with heroes is that you learn from example and eventually outdo them in some area. The student or the reluctant peasant hero coming to the rescue of the master or the great hero is a classic fantasy trope.

I like the idea a lot, but it does make me want to tie it to another gurps skill either Teaching or Leadership with something like every session your "Mentor" makes one of the above skill rolls and you get bonus xp equal to the success value until you have caught up to the lowest group members XP value.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Nosforontu

I like the idea a lot, but it does make me want to tie it to another gurps skill either Teaching or Leadership with something like every session your "Mentor" makes one of the above skill rolls and you get bonus xp equal to the success value until you have caught up to the lowest group members XP value.

That's a pretty cool idea. For added fun, let every member of the veteran group roll and add it up. Teaching is a fairly rare skill in DF, and the possibility of a 30-point session isn't especially game-breaking if your actual goal is to fill in a 100- or 200-point deficit.