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Old 07-14-2009, 08:45 AM   #1
Mgellis
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Default Magic without Magery

I was playing around with some ideas and realized something...

In Lovecraft, magic doesn't appear to require Magery. Anyone can learn spells. Usually, this is very hard, and a really bad idea, but it can be done.

So it got me thinking about how magic is generally handled in GURPS.

Standard spellcasting uses Magery, which is described in a way that suggests it is an innate talent (sensing magic objects, etc. implies someone has a "gift" rather than a learned skill). One is somehow in tune with the magical energy of the universe (mana) and can tap into it and shape it. The learned part is the ability to focus this energy for specific effects, not the basic ability.

So I started thinking about two questions...

1) What kinds of magic do not normally require Magery

...and...

2) If you're not born with Magery, but it's not something you can simply learn through study, are there any ways to gain it later in life?

Some initial thoughts...

* Symbol Drawing does not require Magery. It is implied that the symbols themselves are a kind of lens or gate that focuses magical energy for certain purposes

(I can imagine some really interesting, elaborate forms of Symbol Drawing. Consider Symbol Drawing (Goetia), where each symbol skill lets you summon a different demon who will complete one task for you...but if you fail your skill roll, you may find yourself at the mercy of an angry prince of the infernal realms!)

* Alchemy does not require Magery; it is simply magical chemistry

(Alchemy could also be greatly expanded...along with the various elixirs in Magic, there are lots of interesting things one could do with Alchemy. For example, perhaps certain elixirs will compel a spirit to show up and talk to you...sort of like going "Treat! Treat!" except you're calling something a bit more dangerous than a housecat.)

* Magical powers do not require Magery (but may use a Magic Talent to boost skill, etc.)

* Clerical magic uses Power Investiture, which comes from an external source. Again, this is not learned, but presumably it could be granted either at birth or later in life as a reward for devotion, etc.

* Certain kinds of Path/Book magic do not require Magery...if it is part of a religion, one can replace Ritual Magic with Religious Ritual. (Since most such users of magic probably have Theology, too, it's actually the same cost, except you don't need Magery (Path/Book)).

* If a setting is high mana (either everywhere and all the time or "when the stars are right" or "amid the sacred stones" etc.) one would not need Magery for basic spellcasting.

* For clerical magic, one might not even need Power Investiture, if Religious Ritual skill lets one sanctify a location...if a location is high sanctity, I think one can cast clerical spells without Power Investiture. (Am I getting this one right?)

* As for gaining Magery later if life, perhaps an elaborate ritual (Ritual Magic) or elixir (Alchemy) could do it?

Any other thoughts on all this?
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:03 AM   #2
trooper6
 
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Default Re: Magic without Magery

Actually you don't necessarily need Magery for Path/Book magic at all...not just theological. Ritual Magic skill does not require Magery...and the Magery advantages doesn't do much for the Path/Book Mage.

Path/Book would be...in my mind...the exact version to use for Lovecraftian magic.
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:05 AM   #3
Ejidoth
 
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Default Re: Magic without Magery

I suggest looking at a variant of the spirit-granted magic thing, in Thaumatology; where you can learn easier spells, without defaults, and cast without paying FP and possibly without Magery, but there's a price afterward. This seems, mechanically, well suited to a Call of Cthulhu type of magic, though you'll probably have to rework the fluff behind it.
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:41 AM   #4
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Default Re: Magic without Magery

It's interesting to note that Mana as a physical characteristic of the local geography is also fairly peculiar to GURPS. (Computer games especially generally use the term to mean FP for magic use.) There's nothing wrong with Mana, it's just that it's usually a hidden assumption that people miss.

I think the system could easily stand as is if you ignore Mana as well as Magery (well, Magery 0 at least, you could keep Magery purely as a Talent) and it would fit a lot of fiction easily that way.
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:52 AM   #5
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Default Re: Magic without Magery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
It's interesting to note that Mana as a physical characteristic of the local geography is also fairly peculiar to GURPS. (Computer games especially generally use the term to mean FP for magic use.) There's nothing wrong with Mana, it's just that it's usually a hidden assumption that people miss.

I think the system could easily stand as is if you ignore Mana as well as Magery (well, Magery 0 at least, you could keep Magery purely as a Talent) and it would fit a lot of fiction easily that way.
I think there are quite a few sources (games/media/etc) that use the concept of mana...though they may not always call it that. The idea of ambient mystical energy that casters can tap into (rather than use their own energy reserves). Castle Falkenstein definitely does. The whole idea of ley lines. Or the idea that some places are more magical than others (mystic woods were magic works,etc).

It isn't peculiar to GURPS.
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Old 07-14-2009, 10:00 AM   #6
Mgellis
 
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Default Re: Magic without Magery

Quote:
Originally Posted by trooper6 View Post
Actually you don't necessarily need Magery for Path/Book magic at all...not just theological. Ritual Magic skill does not require Magery...and the Magery advantages doesn't do much for the Path/Book Mage.

Path/Book would be...in my mind...the exact version to use for Lovecraftian magic.
Actually, it says (p. 123) that it's optional. (It sort of implied needing Magery is the default, but that might just be my reading of it.)

I imagine that some kinds of Path/Book magic do require Magery and others, more akin to Symbol Drawing, do not. That's just a 0-point feature of a particular tradition and/or a particular setting.

(A meta-game issue is coming up with the right names for different magical traditions so that people don't get them mixed up.)

(Of course, now we get into all the "What happens if they go to a different timeline with different physical laws and now they need Magery?" questions, but I've decided to treat those as "It's a 0-point feature that some powers, spells, etc. work differently or simply don't work at all in certain timelines.")

Mark
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Old 07-14-2009, 10:18 AM   #7
Diomedes
 
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Default Re: Magic without Magery

Here's one more option, from Thaumatology p.58:

Quote:
Normally, non-mages – however skilled – simply can’t cast spells in an area with normal or lower mana. For a slightly more flexible option, the GM might let non-mages work magic in such areas, but multiply the base energy cost for all spells by 10.
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Old 07-14-2009, 10:53 AM   #8
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Default Re: Magic without Magery

Quote:
Originally Posted by trooper6 View Post
I think there are quite a few sources (games/media/etc) that use the concept of mana...though they may not always call it that. The idea of ambient mystical energy that casters can tap into (rather than use their own energy reserves). Castle Falkenstein definitely does. The whole idea of ley lines. Or the idea that some places are more magical than others (mystic woods were magic works,etc).

It isn't peculiar to GURPS.
Xanth is another classic example. Most of the land would be described as High Mana, there's a few places that are Very High (or possibly Wild), and then there's Mundania, which is either No Mana, or Low Mana. Changeling: the Dreaming has similar notions with Glamour and Banality (and it's not just based on people: places can be very banal, like a laboratory, according to the book). Dark Sword too had an area with High Mana (the core setting) and places without (the areas outside the bundled-up little world). It's not a concept that's really that peculiar to GURPS.

And GURPS's approach isn't really "written in." It's more of a way to standardize setting assumptions: In one setting, there is no magic at all ("No mana"). That might represent the typical modern-day Action game, where magic simply doesn't exist or play into it. In another setting, magic is everywhere and anyone can do it (your typical folk-tale setting. I believe GURPS Celtic Myth assigned High Mana to everything). In yet another setting, magic is everywhere, but only some people ("Mages") can do it, like in Dungeon Fantasy. I believe the typical Cthulhu-type setting (or any other "Secret Magic" setting) is typically low mana: some special people can do magic, but it's difficult and doesn't do much.

This codification exists so you can easily plug and play certain assumptions, and you know what happens when people from a Dungeon Fantasy world pile into an Action world (ie, their magic stops working, and the dragons begin to die). Of course, as the OP points out, not every setting fits into these neat categories (The actual Cthulhu books suggest that anyone can do magic, that it's small and subtle, but still a spectacularly bad idea, suggesting that it's both High Mana and Low Mana at the same time), but that's why we have Thaumatology!
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Old 07-14-2009, 03:26 PM   #9
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Default Re: Magic without Magery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgellis View Post
I was playing around with some ideas and realized something...

In Lovecraft, magic doesn't appear to require Magery. Anyone can learn spells. Usually, this is very hard, and a really bad idea, but it can be done.

So it got me thinking about how magic is generally handled in GURPS.

Standard spellcasting uses Magery, which is described in a way that suggests it is an innate talent (sensing magic objects, etc. implies someone has a "gift" rather than a learned skill). One is somehow in tune with the magical energy of the universe (mana) and can tap into it and shape it. The learned part is the ability to focus this energy for specific effects, not the basic ability.

So I started thinking about two questions...

1) What kinds of magic do not normally require Magery

...and...

2) If you're not born with Magery, but it's not something you can simply learn through study, are there any ways to gain it later in life?

Some initial thoughts...

* Symbol Drawing does not require Magery. It is implied that the symbols themselves are a kind of lens or gate that focuses magical energy for certain purposes

(I can imagine some really interesting, elaborate forms of Symbol Drawing. Consider Symbol Drawing (Goetia), where each symbol skill lets you summon a different demon who will complete one task for you...but if you fail your skill roll, you may find yourself at the mercy of an angry prince of the infernal realms!)

* Alchemy does not require Magery; it is simply magical chemistry

(Alchemy could also be greatly expanded...along with the various elixirs in Magic, there are lots of interesting things one could do with Alchemy. For example, perhaps certain elixirs will compel a spirit to show up and talk to you...sort of like going "Treat! Treat!" except you're calling something a bit more dangerous than a housecat.)

* Magical powers do not require Magery (but may use a Magic Talent to boost skill, etc.)

* Clerical magic uses Power Investiture, which comes from an external source. Again, this is not learned, but presumably it could be granted either at birth or later in life as a reward for devotion, etc.

* Certain kinds of Path/Book magic do not require Magery...if it is part of a religion, one can replace Ritual Magic with Religious Ritual. (Since most such users of magic probably have Theology, too, it's actually the same cost, except you don't need Magery (Path/Book)).

* If a setting is high mana (either everywhere and all the time or "when the stars are right" or "amid the sacred stones" etc.) one would not need Magery for basic spellcasting.

* For clerical magic, one might not even need Power Investiture, if Religious Ritual skill lets one sanctify a location...if a location is high sanctity, I think one can cast clerical spells without Power Investiture. (Am I getting this one right?)

* As for gaining Magery later if life, perhaps an elaborate ritual (Ritual Magic) or elixir (Alchemy) could do it?

Any other thoughts on all this?

One option here is to assume there are places with high or better mana and that they are common (usually dank basements or long abandoned farms where some grisly death occured years ago). A second assumption is that there are magery less spells that will let a caster contact some Entities from Beyond and communicate with them. Under these conditions a person qualifies to buy Magery levels with the Pact Limitation.
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Old 07-14-2009, 03:57 PM   #10
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Default Re: Magic without Magery

Thaumatology p.66 suggests that access to clerical spells might be enabled by advantages such as Blessed or True Faith, by the Disciplines of Faith disadvantage, or by divine fiat. Something similar might be applied to spirit-based magic, with access to spells or rituals ultimately deriving from the goodwill or interest of the spirit community and possibly being represented by advantages such as Channeling or Medium.

Similarly, I wouldn't have a problem with Trained By a Master providing access to a handful of chi-like spells - although between Cinematic skills, Imbuements, and Chi Powers, there would rarely be a need for such a thing. Likewise, I could see an alternative to traditional GURPS psionics where a handful of "gateway advantages" such as Empathy or Danger Sense open up the potential for learning "psychic skills" - i.e., spells organized around the various psychic categories.
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