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Old 06-16-2016, 12:19 PM   #51
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Low-Tech Armor - Proposal for some modifications

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
Well, really both weapon and target deform during the impact, but I guess you're referring to non-elastic deformation.
I'm referring to both types. The issue is just that the force curve is sharper for the more compact object.
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Old 06-17-2016, 12:16 AM   #52
Tomsdad
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
Default Re: Low-Tech Armor - Proposal for some modifications

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
The stiffness of the haft isn't really that important; what matters is the part of the weapon that holds most of the energy and momentum of the strike. When a weapon hits a target, the weapon deforms until the force required to deform the weapon exceeds the strength of the target or weapon, or all of the energy of the strike is absorbed. For an axe or a hammer, the amount of force required to deform the weapon rises extremely quickly; for a sword or rod, it rises less quickly.
The stiffness of the haft is pretty important, as it's where some of that force you looking at to create striking head deformation escapes to and manifests.

This is about the entire system and many thresholds being reached and exceeded.

Either way, the difference between the different weapon types you mention still have to apply in the whole, and in terms of overall effect on both weapon, armour and target, I'm not sure within that it will actually matter that much (certainly not when compared to stuff like comparative hardness, deflection and how penetration occurs, which will effect different weapons in different ways). Also I'm not sure how this is relevant to penalties to hit?

For instance as I pointed out an axe blade, which on war axes tend to be quite fine will by it's construction be more prone to bend (to avoid breaking) than a blunt weapon. In fact even looking at just at your point can you show that an axe blades and mace head will be equally prone to deformation in an impact (and better than clubs and swords), as I suspect it will be mace/club vs. axe/sword in this due to the way blades are constructed.

Similarly as Ulzgoroth points out once you factor in elastic impacts, it's going to be less relevant again, and these are going to be elastic


TL:DR the very specific and narrow effect your highlighting is not I think very relevant to the overall result. So don't get me wrong I'm sure in abstract there is a difference in different weapon deformation force curves, I'm just not sure it going to matter proportionally once you look at everything that is going on. Certainly not in terms of a to hit roll penalty (what effect it would have would be in the being able to penetrate armour, which would better shown by adjusting DRs vs. different damage types)

Last edited by Tomsdad; 06-17-2016 at 12:38 AM.
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Old 06-17-2016, 01:19 PM   #53
Flyndaran
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
Default Re: Low-Tech Armor - Proposal for some modifications

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Originally Posted by Tomsdad View Post
The stiffness of the haft is pretty important, as it's where some of that force you looking at to create striking head deformation escapes to and manifests....
Too stiff will cause soreness and increased risk of injury. There's a reason why high tech hammers aren't just perfectly rigid L shaped objects.
Knowing nothing about weapons I still assume the human part of the equation remains the same.
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Old 06-18-2016, 02:33 AM   #54
Tomsdad
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
Default Re: Low-Tech Armor - Proposal for some modifications

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
Too stiff will cause soreness and increased risk of injury. There's a reason why high tech hammers aren't just perfectly rigid L shaped objects.
Knowing nothing about weapons I still assume the human part of the equation remains the same.
True, also too stiff and the haft will break not able to withstand pressures a less stiff haft can withstand. It's similar kind of compromises we see when it comes to discussing sword blades. All-in-all it's an entire system (which as you say includes the hand that wields it) that operates within whole ranges of variables some of which compete with each other.
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