Improving strength through exercise

[clu2415]

I want my character to carry more stuff, so I was looking at how to improve his strength in play. Some muscle reinforcement procedures are available but he is in the military so he would have to get permission to be off duty multiple weeks while he recovers.

200 hours of training is 1 point so I need 2,000 hours of training for 1 point of ST. The DM says I will have 2 hours available for training a day and that equipment and trainers make this count for 4 hours. Training 5 days a week would give 20 effective hours per week, allowing me to raise his strength after only... 100 weeks. Two years! (He already has a level of lifting strength, so I can't go that route to save time.) Steroids can cut this down to only six months to a year if I accept serious side affects before I even get the first point of strength!

Alternatively, I can pay earned points and have the muscles appear after 3-4 sessions.

[McAllister]

Applying realism to self-improvement is fundamentally incompatible with GURPS being a point-based RPG. GURPS gives groups the tools they need to answer the question "where do points come from" for any given game, and as an abstract resource, they should come only from abstract activities; trying to model realistic strength training would be somewhat reasonable in a game about strength training, but since most aren't, one should earn points and spend them on what one wants to have more points in.

To put it another way, "Earns CP at double rate" is an Advantage that could never be published.

[sethbrayman]

It supposed to take about 10k hours to become expert in something irl, so 10k hours to go from ST10 to ST15 sounds about right.

[Flyndaran]

Games are linear in advancement, but reality is not anywhere near that simple. We all have changing slopes of improvements and loss.
But there is a reason why the strongest people are near the point at which age starts to decrease things. It takes time to build mass.

[Anthony]

It would be somewhat realistic to have 'ST' be a skill (or more than one skill) based on some underlying attribute reflecting raw affinity (possibly a size stat), as that would mean some initial improvement is very fast and then it slows down by a bunch. For example:

Base statistic is BO (body); it directly determines your HP, and is mass-derived. It has two sub-skills, Striking and Lifting, which are used to determine damage and carrying capacity (this means striking ST is effectively reduced to x4 and lifting ST increased to x4, but IME striking ST is overpriced and lifting underpriced, so...).

[starslayer]

Originally Posted by sethbrayman

It supposed to take about 10k hours to become expert in something irl, so 10k hours to go from ST10 to ST15 sounds about right.

What?

No.

become an expert at WHAT. Being strong (represented by ST) is not a single expertise, its being an expert at weight lifting, an expert at carrying heavy loads, an expert at taking hits, an expert at delivering hits. These are RELATED things, but they are separate things. If you want to go with the 'being an expert' view of things than its more like 40,000 hours to raise your ST to 15.

But more practically with a rounded training regime you can raise your ST with points or training EXP rather than with skill.

[thedanster7000]

I'd use the normal skill development rules, treating an extra Strength point as an investment taking the same relative amount of time as a skill that costs 10 points.

Alternatively, increase striking or lifting strength specifically for less points.

[Mithlas]

If he is in the military, you should be getting a lot more than 2 hours a day (I presume your GM means "2 extra hours a day outside work"). While a lot of training done by most militaries is HT centered, there's quite a bit of generalized strength. Moreso depending on what sergeants are running the Physical Training of the specific unit. And that doesn't even include the climbing, jumping, and swimming you might be doing during missions/adventures.

I don't have access to books right now, but there should be an option for learning while on the job that applies a fraction of the time spent working at something relevant applying perhaps 1/4 of its time to training for that new improvement. Your GM might argue that if you're in a desk job you're getting less than a field scout or MP.

[Flyndaran]

Please don't confuse all work with Gurps XP giving training.
Many military people aren't unusually strong. Neither of my brothers came out much stronger than they went in as.
It doesn't even matter what reality does or does not allow.
What matters is what feels okay for game.
It is odd for the GM to make improvement for St so much harder than other facets like skill... I assume. Unless the GM really is doling out the XPs like Scrooge McDuck doles out tips.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by clu2415

I want my character to carry more stuff, so I was looking at how to improve his strength in play. Some muscle reinforcement procedures are available but he is in the military so he would have to get permission to be off duty multiple weeks while he recovers.

200 hours of training is 1 point so I need 2,000 hours of training for 1 point of ST. The DM says I will have 2 hours available for training a day and that equipment and trainers make this count for 4 hours. Training 5 days a week would give 20 effective hours per week, allowing me to raise his strength after only... 100 weeks. Two years! (He already has a level of lifting strength, so I can't go that route to save time.) Steroids can cut this down to only six months to a year if I accept serious side affects before I even get the first point of strength!

Alternatively, I can pay earned points and have the muscles appear after 3-4 sessions.

Honestly as other have said I wouldn't get that tied up in the improvement rules here, especially not for stats. they are a game system abstraction.


I think so long as you have reasonable justification for the improvement and the CPs to do it, it's all good

So with that in mind soldiers march and train with full packs in order to increase their ability to operate with full packs. If I was your GM I'd have no issue with saying yeah you want to spend some on CP on lifting ST (and just ST depending on the game type)