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Old 03-30-2016, 12:27 PM   #11
PK
 
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Default Re: [ATE] What makes you interested?

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Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk View Post
Both of these. I am really hoping there are " build up a settlement/society" rules in AtE2, or a future supplement, as well as better/simpler/more streamlined "survival fiction" emulation rules than we currently have. Plus I generally like the genre fiction quite a bit.
As I've said, I'd be very open to an ATE supplement about building and maintaining a settlement and eventually building up a society. ATE2 is not that book, because ATE2 is already crammed full of necessary rules for basic wasteland hazards and challenges, from "simple survival" to "surviving and scavenging ruins" to "building and repairing things" to "specific dangers based on your particular apocalypse." I did include quite a few social rules and other ways to deal with situations besides killing everyone and everything, but society-building was too complex a topic for me to have tried wedging it into a few pages. (Plus, to be honest, it's not a topic I find interesting -- so I'd prefer to leave that book to an author who's both passionate and well-informed about it.)
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Old 03-30-2016, 05:21 PM   #12
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Default Re: [ATE] What makes you interested?

Same things that interest me in DF:

- Exploration

- Survival

- Sparse settlement and thus limited social situations

- Combat is a dangerous thing; it's best to get the resources you're after without fighting whenever possible


Of course, DF offers me a lot more other things I'm also interested in. It's the increased emphasis on the Survival aspect that'd make me want to try playing a post-apoc game sometime.
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Old 03-30-2016, 05:58 PM   #13
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Default Re: [ATE] What makes you interested?

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The walking dead has really captured it well for me. Its all about holding onto your humanity in an impossibly harsh setting. Who will stay civil and who will turn into a murdering, raping, thief once resources are scarce and there are no external consequences for misbehaving.
One of my players found that completely off putting, he is of the opinion that as soon as it becomes an us vs them situation the cooperation levels will improve not diminish.
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Old 03-31-2016, 10:25 AM   #14
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One of my players found that completely off putting, he is of the opinion that as soon as it becomes an us vs them situation the cooperation levels will improve not diminish.
He's probably right:

'Research shows that in most scenarios, groups of people are more likely to help each other than hinder. “In emergencies, the norm is cooperation,” says Chris Cocking, who studies crowd behaviour at the University of Brighton. “Selfish behaviour is very mild and tends to be policed by the crowd rather than spreading.”'
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Old 03-31-2016, 10:33 AM   #15
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Default Re: [ATE] What makes you interested?

Humans have lived in bands since before we were humans, and probably before we were even apes. The idea that we devolve into solitary, selfish predators at the first provocation has always struck me as a weird one. But since it's usually presented as "they turn against one another; we don't because we're nice, right-thinking people", where "we" tends to be defined as "the people I know", I think it's just an expression of tribalism. It's easy to suspect "them" of something.
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Old 03-31-2016, 10:48 AM   #16
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Default Re: [ATE] What makes you interested?

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Humans have lived in bands since before we were humans, and probably before we were even apes. The idea that we devolve into solitary, selfish predators at the first provocation has always struck me as a weird one. But since it's usually presented as "they turn against one another; we don't because we're nice, right-thinking people", where "we" tends to be defined as "the people I know", I think it's just an expression of tribalism. It's easy to suspect "them" of something.
Its also a very old way of marking the other: if "we" are a solid and loyal community, then "they" must be constantly quarreling with each other and dividing into small groups. Sumerian texts talk about the savages from the mountains who eat truffles, wear skins, and don't even live as couples, and of course Enkidu lives alone except for the gazelles until his encounter with Shamkhatum. People in the middle ages were worried about hunters, charcoal-burners, and other people who spent time alone away from the village.

Its also related to stereotypes about predators, who are often believed to operate alone (even though we know that lions, wolves, etc. are social pack animals). If those savages over there are like wolves, and wolves are solitary, and if after the fall we become like the savages, then we will become solitary.
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Old 03-31-2016, 11:06 AM   #17
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Default Re: [ATE] What makes you interested?

I just watched a documentary where they interviewed tribes and stuff living in jungles around Australia. Some were cannibalistic.

It tends to have a "Gang" mentality. They tend to do something messed up and then the tribe retaliates and it goes back and forth. Tribes form from families and common ideas of trust.

The interesting thing was it the back and forth wasn't very often. Yes, death is scary, but it wasn't like they were "At war" where tons of deaths would happen. Otherwise the tribes would be wiped out or absorbed forcibly.

However, I don't like at ATE for realistic play. I'm always interested in the cinematic nature of genres. The idea that mass amounts of people will become solitary and start preying on each other is more interesting than communities form and people might be distrusting of each other but nothing really happens =)
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Old 03-31-2016, 11:16 AM   #18
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Default Re: [ATE] What makes you interested?

Part of it comes from several popular scenarios of 'The End', where food distribution breaks down, and you have a few weeks to find food and defend it from others before everyone but a few starve. That's the source of the 'every man for himself' policy: you have enough food for 1/100th of the population to survive, and you can either lay down and die or you can fight and kill your neighbors to be one of the lucky 1%.

That mentality then gets projected forward onto post-apocalyptic settings because the two situations are tied together in our minds.

Of course, the winning scenario in that case is the gang, not the loner.
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Old 03-31-2016, 11:23 AM   #19
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Default Re: [ATE] What makes you interested?

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Originally Posted by GodBeastX View Post
However, I don't like at ATE for realistic play. I'm always interested in the cinematic nature of genres. The idea that mass amounts of people will become solitary and start preying on each other is more interesting than communities form and people might be distrusting of each other but nothing really happens =)
If there are limited resources, there will be conflict. It'll just be between communities as the solitaries get absorbed or wiped out. My preferred version of post-apoc is exploring and finding a place among the societies that might arise.
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Old 03-31-2016, 11:38 AM   #20
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Default Re: [ATE] What makes you interested?

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He's probably right:

'Research shows that in most scenarios, groups of people are more likely to help each other than hinder. “In emergencies, the norm is cooperation,” says Chris Cocking, who studies crowd behaviour at the University of Brighton. “Selfish behaviour is very mild and tends to be policed by the crowd rather than spreading.”'
Well, yes and no. What happens in an emergency is that we become more tribal - we become more likely to help other members of our group and more hostile to members of other groups. And there's also a tendency to step up behavior to root out traitors and free riders within our own group.

It would be interesting to see how donations for charity in America changed in the aftermath of 9/11. My prediction would be that donations to outside charity went down while donations to charity inside America went up. Because this was a clear attack on American and American values and so Americans close ranks (and the same for French donations after the Paris attacks, Belgian donations after the Brussels attacks, etc. - I'm not saying that Americans are uniquely tribal).
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