DF and Healing ... For Wizards

[scc]

OK, the DF rules say that Wizards can't learn spells from the Healing College unless the spell is also a member of another college or the spell is on the only path to another spell that a wizard can learn.

Well I set out to find out which Healing spells Wizards can learn, and it's not pretty. Resurrection is a Necromancy spell as well as a Healing spell, and its prerequisites are Instant Regeneration and Summon Spirit, it basically cuts through half of the Healing College, in particular the path to it requires (or can, it depends upon which way you cut it, but the shortest one does) Major Healing, in other words half the ban is gone.

So is there any-point in respecting the ban?

[spacemonkey]

It's all about niche protection, if no one else has any interest in buying a healing ability or healing spells, let the wizard.

If someone's specialized as a healer, let the wizard spend points on the prereqs without the ability to cast the spells, or just remove them as prereqs. Alternatively, double the fatigue cost and reuse penalties for wizards casting heals.

Personally I'd prefer to let the wizard heal and make sure there's more to the cleric than just healing. It's nice to have backup heals, and wizards tend to do other things with their limited actions and fatigue anyways.

[ZmbeHntr]

Pyramid 3/60, Dungeon Fantasy III, lists precisely what spells a Wizard can learn in the Wizardry Refined article. Resurrection is not even available. Out of the Healing College only Lend Energy, Recover Energy, and Share Energy are allowed.

[simply Nathan]

Notably, the list of forbidden wizard spells specifically includes Resurrection, thus a wizard cannot learn it and so he can't learn the other spells on the way to it in order to get them as prerequisites. Likewise and Necromancy spells like Lich for changing his character long-term (requires both Alchemy and enchantments, IIRC).

He can, however, learn Lend Energy, Recover Energy, Lend Vitality, and Minor Healing. I don't know about any others.

Wizards being able to learn healing spells was one of the things that drew me to GURPS; and as has been stated, these restrictions are about niche protection. So if you don't have anyone who wants to play a Cleric, or the cleric wants to be a Fire Cleric or a smiting cleric or a love cleric instead of a healing cleric, by all means allow the wizard unrestricted access to the Healing college.

You could also charge him 1 point per forbidden spell as an Unusual Background to learn normally restricted spells; the only things that should continue to be off-limits even with Unusual Background are time/teleportation for their plot ruining power and Enchantments for the fact that making items is less fun for a typical group than taking items. This is a way to deter niche invasion without needlessly restricting wizards (feel free to do it with Invisibility and Lockmaster if you fear the wizard might step on the thief's toes with such spells too).

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by spacemonkey

It's all about niche protection, if no one else has any interest in buying a healing ability or healing spells, let the wizard.

So the metaphysics of the entire world in which the campaign takes place are affected by the desires of individual characters? Sorry, but I'm very confused now...

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

So the metaphysics of the entire world in which the campaign takes place are affected by the desires of individual characters? Sorry, but I'm very confused now...

I'd be more inclined to just let the Wizard buy a Cleric lens, using One College Magery instead of Power Investiture. At least that gives the player a valid excuse to buy healing spells, and call himself some kind of Holy Mage or something.

[simply Nathan]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

I'd be more inclined to just let the Wizard buy a Cleric lens, using One College Magery instead of Power Investiture. At least that gives the player a valid excuse to buy healing spells, and call himself some kind of Holy Mage or something.

I would let him take the Power Investiture and learn the Healing spells in the wizardly way separately so he can have exclusively accruing -3 penalties on his Minor and Major Heal spells and can cast Great Healing on the same person twice in one day if need be.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

So the metaphysics of the entire world in which the campaign takes place are affected by the desires of individual characters? Sorry, but I'm very confused now...

Are you really, or is this just a rhetorical thing?

Because the truth is, yes, people do often let the desires of individual players have radical influences on such things as metaphysics, politics, and geography.

It's simply a matter of not having a well-defined setting in mind and being willing to shape it to whatever seems convenient for the game.

Not really my inclination, but not unusual at all.

[spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

So the metaphysics of the entire world in which the campaign takes place are affected by the desires of individual characters? Sorry, but I'm very confused now...

Rich, coming from the guy that had to write his own rules because of how much he had to rework GURPS to suit his playstyle. I went to check out how you handle this in SAGATAFL to see if it was hypocrisy or if I just misunderstood you, and I think you should be more concerned with your own game system than with how we play DF/gurps. It's pretty disturbing, here's a quote straight from your webpage.

As an example of one of the very best stories possible, imagine a jungle-dwelling Negro, who is enslaved by Viking raiders and taken to Greenland to work in a mine. Completely unsuited to the arctic climate, he catches pneumonia and dies. That is a story of utter brilliance, because that is what should happen. The character comes true. His traits determine the outcome. As the Story-Teller would disagree vehemently with this, stating that the end of the Negro-abduction story is fundamentally wrong, it is evident that he (the Story-Teller, not the Negro!) will find FFRE most frustrating.People who share his absurd taste in stories should stay far away.

http://www.sagatafl.org/pdf/Who_should_use_FFRE_02.pdf, second to last paragraph

I'm somewhat hopeful you aren't a swastika tattooed white supremacist, but man that quote is really something. I'd change it if I was you. It's especially ironic that it's in a document about who you think should be using your gaming system. Anyways, either way, I don't want to talk gaming with you so please try to avoid my posts and I'll try to avoid yours.

[vicky_molokh]

[MOD]

Everyone please turn down the heat, or else heads will fall. There are major differences in preferred style here, such as issues of worldbuilding vs. improvisation, niche protection, metaphysical flexibility. There are many stances, many of them mutually incompatible. But those discussing them here should refrain from high-octane sarcasm, personal attacks, name-calling etc. (And I do mean this in plural. Don't point fingers at each other.) You have been warned.

[/MOD]