Pole Weapons: Attack / Defense Question

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by Shostak

That sounds more like an option that should be called "Extra Step" rather than "Disengage".

Yes, though whatever it's called, what it says that action/option does is let you move one hex in any direction.

Originally Posted by hcobb

ITL 116: "If the attacking figure is engaged, he may shift onto a figure engaging him to attempt HTH, even if he is engaged with other figures as well."

ITL 106: "A figure that selects the “disengage” option stands still or shifts during its movement phase. When its turn to attack comes, instead of attacking, it moves one hex in any direction. You may move onto another figure to attempt HTH combat that same turn."

Does this mean that you can disengage against a single figure by moving into HTH during your action or not?

Yes they can, but only, as always, if the conditions for initiating HTH are met - they agree, you have higher MA, or their back is blocked.


I have seen GMs rule either way, either that an unengaged figure can attempt HTH twice - once during Movement, and then again as an Action; or that they can't, because initiating HTH during Movement counts as an Action (q.v. option B) and so the figure has already used their action for the turn during the Movment Phase and so gets no second action during the Action phase, just as if they had succeeded at initiating HTH, or moved over 1/2 MA.

We ended up deciding that the second interpretation (that attempting HTH during movement uses their one action for the turn) was best.

Originally Posted by hcobb

So do you move into HTH during movement (with a shift) or during the action phase (with either option n or o, your pick)?

Disengaged figures who can make it to the target's hex via their Rear do it during Movement. Others do it during Action.

[xane]

Originally Posted by Major Ross

Can he move the one hex and DEFEND instead of ATTACKING?

Confusingly, the RAW states DEFEND is only an option when a figure is engaged when their turn comes to move - so no.

[Major Ross]

Good catch there on the rule about NOT being able to defend Xane!

[Skarg]

Except it's a misunderstanding.

Originally Posted by ITL p.102

During a turn, a player may change his mind about a figure’s option, as long as
• that figure has not yet acted, and
• that figure did not move too far to allow it to take the new option.

Defend is listed under Engaged actions in an attempt to clarify that it makes sense to do when Engaged. It doesn't mean you can't do it unless engaged at the start of your movement.

[xane]

Originally Posted by ITL p103

Options for Engaged Figures
A figure which is engaged with an enemy (see definition, p. 101) when its turn comes to move may perform any one of the following options:
...
(k) SHIFT AND DEFEND. Shift one hex (or stand still) and defend (see p. 117).

I agree this can be viewed as misunderstood, as it should be possible to defend when an enemy figure runs up to engage and attack, the phrase should would probably be when its turn comes to act

[Major Ross]

All, ITL clearly states in the reference booklet:

“The options available to a figure depend on whether it is engaged, disengaged or in HTH combat at the moment its turn to MOVE comes” If we follow this process to the letter, than a DISENGAGED figure cannot move and DEFEND.

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by Major Ross

All, ITL clearly states in the reference booklet:

“The options available to a figure depend on whether it is engaged, disengaged or in HTH combat at the moment its turn to MOVE comes” If we follow this process to the letter, than a DISENGAGED figure cannot move and DEFEND.

Can not declare a move and defend, but change change their mind at any later point given only that they didn't move more than allowed.

[Major Ross]

Yep; I saw that rule in ITL. However, I still don’t see DEFEND being a listed option for figures that are DISENGAGED. Defend is only an option if you are ENGAGED at the start of your movement phase. Maybe at this point Steve Jackson or Phil Reed could add some input, in an effort to clarify this important rule for ITL...

Thanks,

Ross

[Tom H.]

Originally Posted by xane

Confusingly, the RAW states DEFEND is only an option when a figure is engaged when their turn comes to move - so no.

Originally Posted by xane

I agree this can be viewed as misunderstood, as it should be possible to defend when an enemy figure runs up to engage and attack, the phrase should would probably be when its turn comes to act

I tried to address this confusion in this post based on Skarg's persuasion and evidence over the last couple of months.

I know that interpretation seems a stretch, but it makes the most sense based on what I have gathered here. Just chalk it up to one single but important oversight in writing the rules.

As some have voiced, it may have been less confusing to have written separate rules for the movement phase and the action phase without regard to options that span both. Although, I can sympathize with the temptation to have done it with the options.

[Steve Plambeck]

Originally Posted by Major Ross

All, ITL clearly states in the reference booklet:

“The options available to a figure depend on whether it is engaged, disengaged or in HTH combat at the moment its turn to MOVE comes” If we follow this process to the letter, than a DISENGAGED figure cannot move and DEFEND.

Yes, but Wizard (original edition) and Advanced Melee clearly state:

"CHANGING OPTIONS
It is legal to change options AFTER the movement part of the turn, to meet changing conditions. The only requirement is that the figure must not have already moved more than the NEW option allows. If you moved 0 or 1 hex, you may switch to any option you could have taken when the turn began ; if you moved ½ your MA or less, you may attack, defend, dodge, or drop ; if you moved over ½ your MA you may do nothing else that turn." (emphasis mine)

The condensed version of the options rules in the latest ITL fail to list these specific examples, but the intent is clearly the same.

Although any figure may be disengaged at the start of its movement turn, it may become an engaged figure by the end of everyone's movement. What SJ calls "changing conditions". If the figure becomes engaged before its turn to act, it must choose its action from the options for engaged figures, one of which happens to be Defend.