p.UT92 Nanofac

[Pectus Solentis]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

Sure, I agree that Machinist skill is used. I'm just questioning why it's necessarily provided by a human operator and not by the factory's inbuilt computer.

I wonder this too.

[Captain Joy]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

Sure, I agree that Machinist skill is used. I'm just questioning why it's necessarily provided by a human operator and not by the factory's inbuilt computer.

My guess is because an argument can be made that any TL11 equipment could function without a human operator, resulting in scant little for the player characters to do.

[a humble lich]

Originally Posted by Captain Joy

My guess is because an argument can be made that any TL11 equipment could function without a human operator, resulting in scant little for the player characters to do.

This. Ultratech is vague on the ubiquity of AI because that is very setting dependent. Star Wars is a solid TL 11 setting, but I would completely expect a Nanofac in that setting to require a human operator. If it had an AI operator, the AI would be a 'droid. For a TL 11 which has all TL 11 gear available then the Nanofac would most likely include an AI operator, but that should not be assumed to be available in all settings.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

Sure, I agree that Machinist skill is used. I'm just questioning why it's necessarily provided by a human operator and not by the factory's inbuilt computer.

Probably for genericism. There is nothing about a nanofac that requires an AI to be involved, and its easier to add an AI to a stat block than to remove it from one. Write up the basic building block of the technology.

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Probably for genericism. There is nothing about a nanofac that requires an AI to be involved, and its easier to add an AI to a stat block than to remove it from one. Write up the basic building block of the technology.

It doesn't have to be AI. It's just the effective skill level of the monitoring expert software, as for the robofac.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

It doesn't have to be AI. It's just the effective skill level of the monitoring expert software, as for the robofac.

And yet my point holds: its easier (from a stats perspective) to add software to the most basic version than to strip down a fancier version.

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by ericthered

And yet my point holds: its easier (from a stats perspective) to add software to the most basic version than to strip down a fancier version.

We used to have expert software fully statted out in 3e, iirc, although it was a bit problematic. I don't know that any 4e stats exist for what expert software should cost and what Complexity it is, probably due to said problematicness.

Which is to say, I don't know how much an expert program would cost, but at TL11, Complexity 7 software is $100 a pop, and running on a 0.5lb Small Computer attached to the $20,000/10lb suitcase nanofac, which presumably includes that or a better computer, would have negligible effect on the stats.

And what's the current ruling on Complexity for AI? I'm not sure at the moment, but the rules on UTp25 would mean a IQ 13 dedicated AI has Complexity 7- not to say we put AI in there, but just as a point of comparison for what an expert system should be able to do at that level.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

I don't know that any 4e stats exist for what expert software should cost and what Complexity it is, probably due to said problematicness.

I think a dedicated AI (Ultra-Tech p. 25) is an expert system, basically. It's capable of language, which is a bit odd for an expert system, I guess, but I'd say that's more a feature of TL 9+ software programmers wanting all their systems to use the most "natural" interface features.

Originally Posted by Daigoro

And what's the current ruling on Complexity for AI?

The rules on Ultra-Tech p. 25 that you reference are the only ones we've got, as far as I know. And they seem to adequately cover it. If you know the Complexity of a computer and want to know the IQ of an AI running on that device, the formulas presented can be reversed easily enough. But for convenience's sake, here they are:
Dedicated AI: IQ = (Complexity -1)*2
Non-Volitional AI: IQ = (Complexity-2)*2
Volitional AL: IQ = (Complexity-3)*2.

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

I think a dedicated AI (Ultra-Tech p. 25) is an expert system, basically.

I'm just talking about "expert systems" as software that let's a computer use a skill or provide a bonus for it- Accounting, Intelligence Analysis, and such. It's on the spectrum for AI and such systems might be called AI in modern terminology, but I'd put it a step below GURPS AI. However, Ultra-Tech only uses the term once (yay for PDF search!) in reference to Forensics, so they must have been detailed more in 3e, prolly Cyberpunk.

Dedicated AI on p25 would act the same as expert systems but across a range of skills, not just one, I guess.

The rules on Ultra-Tech p. 25 that you reference are the only ones we've got, as far as I know.

There was some question about Complexity of mind emulations, which must be what I was thinking of, with conflicting formulae. And it looks like I made a mistake above- Complexity 7 would be IQ 12.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

I'm just talking about "expert systems" as software that let's a computer use a skill or provide a bonus for it- Accounting, Intelligence Analysis, and such.

Dedicated AI on p25 would act the same as expert systems but across a range of skills, not just one, I guess.

Ultra-Tech says that Dedicated AI are "incapable of learning", and the mental template for "Weak Dedicated AI" (Ultra-Tech p. 28) has Cannot Learn. So, I would say an "expert system" is simply a dedicated AI that's been programmed to have a single skill.