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Old 01-10-2013, 10:49 AM   #1
BoringInfoGuy
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default When to discard during combat

Specifically, when to put a monster card that has been defeated with a card or class ability into the discard pile.

A player Pollymorphs King Tut, and another player interferes with the combat by Wandering in the Net Troll.

While King Tut is no longer in the combat, is it put into the discard pile immediately after Pollymorph is played, or do you wait until the combat is concluded?

I know that 99.9% of the time, it will not matter. I just want to know for when that .1% situation does come up.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:23 AM   #2
Enzzo
 
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Default Re: When to discard during combat

Discard them after combat. I am pretty sure this has been codified, but I couldn't find it.

The order of discarding has been ruled on though:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard View Post
The official ruling is that the player whose turn it is discards in whatever order he feels like.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:37 PM   #3
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Default Re: When to discard during combat

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Originally Posted by Enzzo View Post
Discard them after combat. I am pretty sure this has been codified, but I couldn't find it.
The question came up in another thread, and while the consensus was that after combat was probably the correct play, no one was able to quote an actual ruling.
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Originally Posted by Enzzo View Post
The order of discarding has been ruled on though:
Right. you can find that repeated in the FAQ as well. Also there is this:
Quote:
Q. When does a card move from play to discard? For example, if I use a one-shot Item during combat, is it in play during the entire combat or does it immediately move to the discards?
A. The one-shot card does not move to the discards until the battle is over. However, you no longer "own" that card, unless someone plays something to reboot the combat and return all cards to their owners, in which case you resume ownership.
The difference between a one shot item used and an eliminated monster is that the effect of the item remains in play until the end of the entire combat.

If one shots are used by both sides, just to have the monster Pollymorphed at the end, all of the one shot items would still be active if another monster is Wandered in.*

In contrast, once a Monster is eliminated, it no longer has any impact on any remaining combat. Also, any enhancers on the eliminated creature would also have no effect on the remaining combat.

Due to that difference, I was hoping to find an official ruling.

------------------------

*Off topic but related questions:

If your helper had played Potion of Halitosis, and you then wandered in Floating Nose on yourself, the potion would still auto kill the Floating Nose, correct?

How about if an interfering Munchkin played Potion of Halitosis to boost a monster, would it still cause the Floating Nose to be auto killed?
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:50 PM   #4
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Default Re: When to discard during combat

I'm also interested in the ruling as I can remember being told by Munchkinman that even during combat, discarding is discarding. I can't find the post, unfortunately, but this is one of those things I've never been fully sure about.

I can find this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MunchkinMan View Post
I would say any card that has an instantaneous effect like Bicker Ichor gets discarded once the effect is complete, not that it hangs around.
Which may be the thread I remember (although I think there was another). In any case, this definitely supports the concept that the FAQ entry is only how to treat cards that hang around until the end of combat.

Unfortunately, that view does lead to difficulties when you use cards that return cards used during the combat to the owner's hands. You have to start removing cards from the discard pile and remembering which ones were played during the current combat, but it's the only way to follow MM's rulings on the matter.
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Last edited by Clipper; 01-10-2013 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:13 PM   #5
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Default Re: When to discard during combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clipper View Post
even during combat, discarding is discarding.
That is referring to cards that tell you to discard. For instance, a Fighter discards a card to get a combat bonus.

Come to think of it, doesn't Pollymorph specifically say to "discard" the monster? If so, you would immediately discard it, not wait for the end of the battle.
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:26 PM   #6
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Default Re: When to discard during combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brf View Post
That is referring to cards that tell you to discard. For instance, a Fighter discards a card to get a combat bonus.

Come to think of it, doesn't Pollymorph specifically say to "discard" the monster? If so, you would immediately discard it, not wait for the end of the battle.
Exactly. That's what BIG was asking. The FAQ has always been a bit confusing in that regard, but the other official responses on the forum seem to indicate that discard effects really do discard immediately and the FAQ only refers to +X to either side cards that stick around and so on. I believe a used Wandering Monster card should be immediately discarded for example, despite the FAQ implying it would stick around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoringInfoGuy View Post
*Off topic but related questions:

If your helper had played Potion of Halitosis, and you then wandered in Floating Nose on yourself, the potion would still auto kill the Floating Nose, correct?

How about if an interfering Munchkin played Potion of Halitosis to boost a monster, would it still cause the Floating Nose to be auto killed?
I don't believe either of these would work. Potion of Halitosis tells you it gives +2 to either side or it kills the Floating Nose. If you could do both effects, it would use 'and' rather than 'or'. When it is played, the player decides which effect it has, choosing a side to get a bonus or if it kills the Floating Nose, not any combination of the effects.
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: When to discard during combat

Other rulings have stated that you don't get any treasure unless you win the combat, even if a monster had been defeated some other way; that's why I thought the monster would not be discarded until the end. I'd just put it off to the side and not count it towards the remaining monsters' combat strength, then discard it at the end of combat. It makes sense to go ahead and discard the Pollymorph Potion, though.

(I'm going from memory, as I don't have the card in front of me at the moment)
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:58 PM   #8
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Default Re: When to discard during combat

That certainly makes it easier to keep track of things, but it does have an effect on the combat. What if somebody plays a card that relies on the top monster in the discards before the combat ends? For example, Curse! Dying Curse. If this is played during a combat where a monster has already been automatically defeated, we need to know if said monster is already in the discard pile or not, as it will be the topmost one.
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Old 01-10-2013, 02:06 PM   #9
Andrew Hackard
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Default Re: When to discard during combat

The official answer is that cards that no longer affect the combat, such as Pollymorphed monsters, are discarded immediately, while cards that still do affect the combat, such as one-shots, stay until the combat is over.

I eagerly* await the onslaught of "but this causes timing problems!" responses I am certain to get.

* Perhaps not so eagerly.
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Old 01-10-2013, 02:27 PM   #10
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Default Re: When to discard during combat

It seems straight forward to me, Andrew and I have no arguments. I certainly don't have any issue with the timing. It just adds a minor bit of bookkeeping, remembering which discarded cards were played during the combat in case a return the cards to owners' hands comes up, and remembering how many instances of a monster have been present (to calculate Treasure) if a defeated monster card is drawn from the discards and then added back into the same combat which it had already been discarded from.
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