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Old 05-12-2019, 04:00 PM   #21
raniE
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Default Re: Well, that went...poorly

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Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard View Post
Wasn't what I meant. I thought the rerun with dog stats was fascinating, in fact.

It just seemed that the tone was starting to shift to "of course, you ran the wolves wrong, because they would have bolted," and that was detracting from what seemed to me to be the main point, especially as the OP acknowledged it in the first post.
Oh I didn't see it that way, I was only commenting on my own run and what I would have done in actual table play, as there the wolves took casualties. Sinanju's wolves didn't even take any damage so had no reason to run away.

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
The Giant Snake is worth two Melee fighters, or one and a half ITL heroes.

A Giant Poisonous Snake is a good match for two ITL heroes.

https://www.hcobb.com/tft/firepower.html
Neat calculations. Yeah, I think I'll try for a single Giant snake vs two starter melee fighters, see how that goes.
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Old 05-12-2019, 07:14 PM   #22
Helborn
 
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Default Re: Well, that went...poorly

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
The Giant Snake is worth two Melee fighters, or one and a half ITL heroes.

A Giant Poisonous Snake is a good match for two ITL heroes.

https://www.hcobb.com/tft/firepower.html
even more if you're facing an elf who has an additional -3
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Old 05-12-2019, 07:25 PM   #23
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Default Re: Well, that went...poorly

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even more if you're facing an elf who has an additional -3
Assumption in the Firepower calculation is average results against players who "do the right thing" in each case.

But snakes slither, not crawl.

"And all that slithers is cold, as the fated stars align tonight."
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:08 AM   #24
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Default Re: Well, that went...poorly

Wolves can be either deadly or easily handled...

TFT combat results are mostly about the specific situation, moves, and outcomes of each action, which IMO is a major part of what makes TFT combat exciting and interesting, and a game worth playing even just to enjoy the combat.


(And I think raniE made an excellent point about how the the wolves are played makes a huge difference. Encounters where foes attack immediately and fight to the death can be deadly, while the same figures played with cautious self-concern may be far less deadly for both sides (and open up a different sort of game).)
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:14 PM   #25
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Default Re: Well, that went...poorly

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Wolves can be either deadly or easily handled...

TFT combat results are mostly about the specific situation, moves, and outcomes of each action, which IMO is a major part of what makes TFT combat exciting and interesting, and a game worth playing even just to enjoy the combat.


(And I think raniE made an excellent point about how the the wolves are played makes a huge difference. Encounters where foes attack immediately and fight to the death can be deadly, while the same figures played with cautious self-concern may be far less deadly for both sides (and open up a different sort of game).)
And terrain. I played out the original battle on an open plain (an empty hex map). Had there been any kind of terrain features, the humans might have been able to limit the wolves' ability to encircle them, effectively reducing their numerical advantage.
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:22 PM   #26
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Well, that went...poorly

Your big problem with a pack of fast critters with big teeth is that they will simply engage you in HTH combat. That is, in fact, what would happen to you if a pack of wolves decided to eat you (assuming they didn't chicken out when you waved a stick at them).
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:23 PM   #27
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Default Re: Well, that went...poorly

Which leaves Two Weapons with Torch as seen ITL.
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:44 PM   #28
raniE
 
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Default Re: Well, that went...poorly

Or missile weapons and pole arms. Shoot them as they run up, then hold them off with spears. If they charge in, you'll still get the first attack regardless of their DX, with a +2 to hit and an extra die of damage. Combine that with use of terrain and humans should have a decent chance against Wolf stat wolves, and probably be too tough a nut to crack for less than overwhelming numbers of dog stat wolves.

But then of course you get the wolves tactics, like attacking at night when their better night vision comes into play, or isolating stragglers and bringing them down. Plus the wolves can use terrain to their advantage too, using trees for cover against missiles for instance.

Simple rules, yet complex tactics.
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Old 05-13-2019, 05:33 PM   #29
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Well, that went...poorly

These sorts of situations are what makes TFT so brilliant. It is an incredibly straightforward, stripped down and regimented game, yet its filled with little things that radically change how you should play. And a large fraction of situations go pear-shaped for someone due to dice rolls, shaking up the situation and forcing you to change your approach. It's like playing chess, where the players have different mixes of pieces and every couple of turns there is an earthquake that shuffles the board. I can't think of any other fantasy roleplaying games where that is really true.
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:25 AM   #30
Axly Suregrip
 
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Default Re: Well, that went...poorly

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Assumption in the Firepower calculation is average results against players who "do the right thing" in each case.

But snakes slither, not crawl.

"And all that slithers is cold, as the fated stars align tonight."

Good side topic. I always found the Elf -3 penalty not clearly defined. I can see all the following being defined as such by some GMs. I only go with the first two:
- small bugs (spiders, wasps with ST1)
- big bugs (Large Spiders ST12, Large Scorpions) but are these still creeping if so large?
- snakes
- giant snakes
- slimes


What if a bug is the size of a dragon? Is it still a creepy crawly?
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